One of the tricky parts with that is that it’s a lot of extremely detailed background information, much of which would have to be created from scratch (which is trickier where canon approvals are concerned). For example, there has never actually been an on-screen appearance of the interior of an Akira-class starship, let alone a detailed canonical accounting of ships’ interiors for that class. And that’s requiring detailed information about ship sizes that the shows and movies don’t always keep consistent (how many decks does the Enterprise-E have? Dialogue is contradictory here. How big is a Klingon Bird-of-Prey? The distinction between B’rel and K’vort isn’t ever addressed on screen.)
…and more than that, it’s also not necessary. Deck plans will always be inaccurate. Ships have modular interiors, and are configured differently according to mission parameters. The USS Galaxy is not the USS Yamato, even if they’re both Galaxy-class starships, and their interiors will be laid out differently (which is why creating a group’s ship is not just a matter of picking a class - there are differences beyond that). Furthermore, knowing where everything is on a starship a few hundred metres long with two dozen decks is trivia, not necessary information. The cast and writers of TNG don’t necessarily know what’s in every compartment of every deck, but they know that there’s a Bridge on deck 1, an engine room, transporter rooms, and so forth, and anything else is nebulous space that doesn’t matter until it becomes relevant to the story (oh, and per Encounter at Farpoint, the crew don’t necessary know where everything is on a Galaxy-class either - those things are huge and the ship can give you directions). There is no reason that the same approach shouldn’t be applied to running or playing in a Star Trek RPG - assume the characters know where everything is, without requiring that same knowledge of the players.
It’s a nice thing to have on a wishlist… but don’t get your hopes up.
I agree it’s nice to have on a wishlist, but also agree that you’re -never- going to get it in book format. Not for the RPG. People have wanted such for literal decades. Half a century or more and no. Nathan hits a lot of the points so I won’t repeat them, but people also forget things.
I’ve looked at many fan versions on the internet for years. One thing I notice, is that these fan creations seem to be under the impression noone on a starship ever uses the bathroom unless they’re in their private personal quarters. lol You don’t see a bathroom on most DECKS. Much less where people could get to them and use them.
The officers and crewmen are not reporting for duty and then when they have to go, taking a turbo lift and running down the hall all the way to their private quarters to pee. lol but Bathrooms on the deckplans are rare as hen’s teeth out side private quarters.
Now that’s just one thing. A small thing that’s often overlooked but it’s an example. If they -were- to try and put in concrete deckplans… what happens when… there’s no bathrooms? Or they forget the secondary phaser bank emmiters? Or the astropniics bay? or the … any of a million things? Have you seen deckplans that include those 1.5M jefferies tubes? lol You see them eventually in every show. They’re HUGE. but they’re between and around decks? Sheesh.
So yeah… as cool as it’d be… (And it WOULD BE) It’s not going to happen. The very best you MAY get would be a few bridge scamatics. Those are easy enough to approximate. Thing is… those are available online 100 places for free if you need them. So using page space in smallish RPG books would be a waste.
The Modiphius source books are about 130 pages. I would much prefer more rules and stuff, than reprints of bridges you cn get in 1.5 seconds image search on google.
I have an old deck plans printed on 11x17 of the Intrepid class, Akira class the Archer class and several others. And yes they actually show the bathrooms as well as other things. I also have several great deck plans for non-canon designs made with the same style. There are a LOT of things in Trek that never had all the holes filled in. But like my Intrepid deck plans, they were filled in using logic. Oh and when I say my deck plans, I am not claiming that I made them. I just have copies I gathered before the cease and desist killed them.
There is a lot of outstanding work of this kind that hews close to canon. With it complete but languishing I have no doubt some could be acquired. Less detailed work is actually just as good for the table and not too hard to put out. I am in no way a graphic artist and I have made non-Trek deck plans for my games. There are many actual skilled graphic artists out there making and selling quality deck plans.
It is not impossible nor out of reach. 364Starbase, Narendra Station is only in the STA material. Being a central part of the campaign setting and adventures, a deck plan is not unreasonable. In other RPG’s we get never ending incarnations of Taverns, Villages and Towns. And yet in a RPG where ships are the Towns and Villages that the game is played out in, we get nada. Just seems rinky dink to me.
But I am personally fine. I have the deck plans I need…
Just because a lot of deck plans are out there doesn’t mean it isn’t a major undertaking. I’ve done things on a much smaller scale that took absurd amounts of time that I could never justify if I was doing it as part of a commercial project. Trust me, it’s a lot of work.
Personally, I don’t find deck plans to be useful for an RPG beyond a reference for creating a proper map, but I guess I’m a bit of a snob in that regard. Which is why I LOVE the map tiles!
I do agree that there should be a map of Narendra Station, maybe a set of deck tiles like “Federation Facilities” that has tiles for various stations, outposts and facilities throughout the federation. They could pull from there recommended configurations to make the key decks of the station.
I wouldn’t mind seeing yours. I’ve looked at Deckplans online for decades and have yet to find any that really address everything. I’m sure the creators, are quite proud of them, but I’ve yet to be fully satisfied by any. In -decades-.
So if you want to pass along yours I’ll take a gander.
A part of the problem was mentioned above. The ‘ships’ themselves are made of interchangable plug and play hallways and walls and what not. So depending on what a scene needs, the ship has “That”.
Sort of like the frankly HUGE flipping Astrometrics lab in Voyager that never once appeared till they needed a place for Seven of Nine to work.
Or the fact that even on screen things seem to contradict themselves. Googled “Could the Delta flyer fit in Voyager” and hold onto your butt. The image showing them building the flyer is bigger than any part of the ship unless they built it in the middle of the saucer section and some how go ti t out of the ship and into the butt. but then… depending on whom you talk to. It won’t fit through the door anyway. Much less around the “L” Corner of the Voyager shuttle bay.
Filling in space using ‘Logic’ is fine, but not everyone shares it, and it wouldn’t account for the things ‘you’ don’t think of that ‘i’ might.
The game book trying to accommodate all that would take quite some time. And that’s just for one ship.
A Nova alone has 8 decks and it’s small. The Enterprise E has what 24-29 depending on whom you talk to… in ONE FILM?
Now looking at the size of the Modiphius sourcebooks. about 120-130 pages. Say the Enterprise E is your lead off. It’s one of the newer and cooler of the ships. Out side shots at the full page scale would take 3 pages. A dorsal, a ventral, and a side/front/back page. then 29 decks. With absolute zero write up what so ever you’re looking at 32 pages for one ship. That’s a fourth of the book. At that rate you might get 4… or 5 ships. per book. At $30 a piece. For deck plans that would not be canon, would cause them problems as people complained that the Med bay is on Deck X not Y, and wouldn’t --really-- give players that much. Certainly not more than they could get online for free.
And that’s assuming that Modiphius even has the ability to do deckplans. It’s entirely possible that their license does not cover such a thing. Someone else might own it. Eaglemoss or someone.
Have you noticed how -little- the ships are actually detailed in Modiphius? I mean not just pics/images, but they don’t even have the number of decks or crew compliments.
The focus on fluff vs. crunch is one of my favourite aspects of the game and why I feel it succeeds as being a system that attempts to emulate an actual show, rather than OTT D&D-esque need to quantify everything.
From a completely nerd point of view I love the minutia the Trek fandom goes into, but IMO this system does not support it simply because it is not needed.
That said I would love some deck tiles of a Federation station (i.e. Narendra) and would also love tiles of DS9 (which could potentially be done in collaboration with Cryptic Studios). Also maybe a collection involving Bridges, Sickbays and Engine Rooms of the series lead ships.
Hmmm… I realize after reading the responses to my post and several others posts that we may not be thinking of the same thing at all when I say deck-plans. To me a deck-plan is just that as I have seen and used on real actual ships. They are a layout of major bulkheads, partitions and hatch locations on a vessel. With either a location number or a name. While the they sometimes do, they normally do not include furnishings.
JohnnieRico noted how little the ships are actually detailed in Modiphious. I say EXACTLY! That is why I brought it up.
I’m not looking for the Enterprise (any version) because they are already out there. And frankly, none of the Trek games I’ve played that lasted were on the large ships. The successful games were on the smaller vessels where keeping track of things didn’t become a chore. Even the Intrepid class has already been done and can be found as has the Akira. But find a RPG usable deck plan of a Runabout, A small scout ship or a small science ship.
For me I don’t use mini’s in play for RPG’s and I generally stick to the theater of the mind for them as well. But I have found that having an image of the layout of their ship really enhances play. The character may be Chief Engineer and know his ship like the back of his hand, but the player is doesn’t. The same with the rest of the players. Tiles are great for a specific location, especially if using them for mini’s. But they are not the overview that assists the players visualizing their plans. I always print my maps at 11x17. Large enough to see, too small to try and use them as a battlemap.
GM: The intruder appears to be on Deck 14 near Damage Control.
Player 1: Damage Control?
Player 2: What else is on Deck 14?
Player 3: How many corridors? Can security fields cut it off?
Player 4: Are there quarters there? How many crew?
And so on while they attempt to visualize the scene.
Same scenario with deck plan.
GM: The intruder appears to be on Deck 14 near Damage Control.
Player 1 shuffles out Deck 14’s plan and Players 1 through 4 look at it.
Player 1: There is Damage Control. {Points it out}
Player 2: Deck 14 is pretty isolated. No quarters, just duty personnel.
Player 3: Looks like only one turboshaft. Lock it down and activate containment fields here here and here.
And players are in the drivers seat and Role Playing !
Well no deck plan will satisfy a persons personal vision unless they build it themselves. But they do not have to be 1000% accurate on everything to be useful in a RPG game.
Back in the late 70’s when I really got into Trek I scored a fantastic deckplan of the Enterprise. It was one of the ones that looked like a blue print both paper and blue ink. It showed that the actual Warp Drive was in the Engineering Hull (the thing that pulsed red in in engineering on the TV show) and there were two Matter/Antimatter reactors, one in each nacelle. The concept was, like the Saucer Section being able to separate and land in case of emergency, a nacelle could be jettisoned in the event of it going critical. Like ejecting the Warp Core now. One of the reasons they each had a Bussard Collector was to allow a ship to extend its range and reduce fuel consumption by augmenting via the collector…
Then it became popular again and the studio showed interests and decided many of the concepts and ideas of the original show and the time between had to go. And presto! The deckplans all suddenly showed the nacelles as Warp Coils and the power generator was the Warp Core in the middle of Engineering.
Regardless if the original idea actually makes far more sense when considering the safety and survivability of a ship. But it was the new mandate so I go with it. I have my very old and worn copy boxed away for safe keeping. I use the “new” version in play.
But in the end if you are waiting for everything to be what you consider perfect, you’ll be waiting a very long time. My campaign centers around the Archer class scout and Shiva class destroyer designs made by Starship Dynamics. They are hard-copy and they were never released in PDF. But they are perfect for my use. Star Trek Blueprint Database has several old plans that have the perfect level of detail for my games. Though all have flaws to the perfectionist
I followed the link, and it took dozens and dozens of links down the page to even find deck plans but I found them.
Yes they’re there and they’re largely the one’s I’ve seen for years and years.
For an example,1) Because I love the ship, 2) Because I -have- looked for deck plans of the ship and 3) because it’s literally the first one there and 4) it meets your criteria for a small ship,…
I opened up the Nova.
I’ve got these plans on my computer.
And… Looking at Deck one… unless you’re slipping into the Captain or First officers private room to take a dump… you can’t use the bathroom.
Same for deck two…
Deck three…
Deck four.
Now I didn’t go all the way down but there being no public access bathrooms with in —four decks— of the bridge seems problematic to me. It’s a little thing. Seems silly to bring up except… it’s really not. It illustrates my point.
While the deck plans there are better than --i-- could do, they have left out a rather important part of every day life. One that simply can’t be ignored at will. Assuming each station on the --Bridge-- is manned, that’s a minimum of 9 people on the bridge. They’re not all going to step out to use the head at the same time. They’re professionals but they’ll stagger it. Even so with a standard 8 hour duty shift, you’re going to need to go to the bathroom two or more times. So. Assume twice per 8 hour shift. Assume… one of those two is… shall we politely say… longer than the other.
So 9 people on the bridge. 18 bathroom breaks collectively. Lets call the shorter visits 3 minutes. Starfleet will make you wash your hands or flippers or what ever appendage… longer ones… 10.
So just for logistics. that’s 117minutes for the actual function. For sake of math we’ll add on 3 minutes for a 120 total. Two hours of SOMEONE being in the bathroom off the bridge, at SOME point.
Now… if you have to go 4 or 5 decks to find a bathroom How long is that adding in? If you literally have to take a turbo lift to your deck and the crew quarters to go into -your- room to use the bathroom… that’s going to add a LOT more time on there. Suddenly people are off the bridge for 20+ minutes. Just using the bathroom. Even with turbo lifts you still have to go down hallways, enter your room enter the bathroom conduct your business, then reverse the trip. Hope you’re not sharing a lift, etc.
Logistically that’s insane.
So by not including that silly little detail you’ve ‘broken’ the ship in a small but actually significant way.
Now personally I don’t care ‘that much’. But if Modiphius was going to do deck plans they would need to make sure no mistakes of that nature were made… or people such as myself would point them out. And I’m not even --that-- picky. I think it’s pretty safe to say that… Star Trek fans can be… very… very… ----very---- precise and exacting in the minutia of such things to an astounding and hypercritical end.
Not to mention some of those ships have 30+ decks.
There are some threads on Trekbbs where engineers or computer modellers are trying to use a combination of studio models, existing deck plans, and modern engineering common sense to produce working ships including things like wiring, power conduits, toilets, and crew quarters. The projects are not finished yet but very interesting.
I don’t care if a deckplan is screen accurate/cannon. I actually really like the idea of a more blank one with areas to fill in! I understand approvals might make a non-cannon deckplan not feasible.
The point of a deckplan isn’t so much to find the bathrooms but to have and use to give the PCs something to do and someplace to go.
GM: You’re going to need to reroute that ODN relay.
PC: Ok, I’ll see if I can reroute it by (technobable). [rolls]
Versus:
GM: There’s a hull breach on deck 2. Containment fields are in place, but that’s cutting you off from getting at the ODN relay.
PC: I need to reroute that…I’m going to have to run cable through the corridor…and ugh…down the turbolift shaft.
GM: Meaning no turbolift access to decks 1-3.
There’s no reason you can’t have option 2 without a deckplan, it just would be an aid and IMHO enhances the experience.
All valid points. Which would have meant something if they applied to the USS Lincoln when I was active duty.
But this is an RPG where we are on Starships and in the last 10 years no player in any of my games has asked where the bathroom is except once when I ran a espionage game the players wanted to ambush someone in the train station bathroom.
I don’t want to build a starship, I want basic layouts that the players can use to enhance the game. Heck I have players that have never seen any Trek at all. Old, new or JJ’verse. For them a pic and a layout of the anything is gold.
But I really do understand where you are coming from. There hasn’t been a RPG published in the last 30 years that manages Age of Sail and earlier all the way to Ancient seafaring and ship worth a s***. I really hate seeing a so called sea going game or supplement even being published because they are idiotic at best and randomly mix designs and concepts from literally hundreds of years apart. Makes my teeth hurt.
So I get it. But scifi ship discrepancies do seem to bother me as much. I guess because there is nothing real to them in the first place. To me anyway.
Well the fact that your players have never asked for such… isn’t the basis to write a RPG. My point is simply that it’s not an ‘easy’ thing to do, and those saying it is, seem to be ok with it being done badly.
The plans I mentioned. I’ve found previously when running Star Trek games set on a Nova class ship, and just little things like I mentioned stood out to me and I’m not all that picky.
if Modiphius did do a book of that nature they’d have to endure much more nit picky freaks than me. lol.
Not to mention the page count that would be required to pull this off for even ‘small’ ships.
I personally (and this is after much internal debate) would actually prefer not to have fully mapped out deck plans. Sometimes I produce a deck list for my ships, so they know what is on each deck, but that is group dependent.
If something of this type was to be produced, I would probably prefer to have a list of what is on the ship (how many transporters/holodecks, crew compliment with officer breakdown, etc) would be a lot more useful to me.
As for the idea of being border and working out where people are going etc- I actually think that is part of the GM’s job as the story teller. Maps tend to detract from immersion in my experience. The show didn’t have them, so I don’t think we do either.
Romulan sourcebook everything, including STO Romulan Republic,
STO ships especially those that use mixed designs and technologies (Scimitar, Faeht, Aelahl Warbird, Aves Science Destroyer)
clearly detailed way of making custom species with examples so ‘by the book’ GMs allow these,
alternative campaign ideas and examples, expecially Romulan and (for fun) Ferengi,
details on how to build & manage your own ship or station if rich or high enough ranking,
a book that could explore using the RPG system with the Star Trek setting being replaced?
Well I can see you will insist on not seeing my point.
Page count is not only doable but easy. After all 4 or 5 11x17 pages is actually not much at all, in fact multiple small companies have done it several times, though they ran into licensing issues.
So very doable and 100% feasible.
And I went back to look at the old Strategic Design plans I had. They are the best of the old Trek hi-res but printable at 11x17. At first I couldn’t find the heads (restrooms for non-Navy types) and thought “what an oversight”. Then on the Enterprise key I saw what their symbol was for the head. And then I was seeing them everywhere. Ignoring that every single berthing space from 18 man to singles had their own head and shower. They had smaller heads everywhere. Far more and more conveniently placed than you’ll find on a real warship. I would have killed to have had that many heads on Lincoln that time I had food poisoning.
All that said. I get it that you do not like the idea of deckplans and that is cool.
But opinion is not fact.
My opinion that deckplans help a lot is based on 20+ years of seeing it in action. But I am also well aware that there are just as many players that want a more elastic world setting and don’t like maps and deckplans. For me, a deck plan is 100% identical to a city, Inn, tavern or fortress map. It allows players whose characters are supposed to be experienced with a setting to be experienced with a setting. A ships engineer will know his ship.
But we’ll have to agree to disagree. I would suggest to look closely at Strategic Design and Starship Dynamics deckplans if you have a chance. They are both well done for an RPG, enough details to build on, but not so many as be over-detailed.
Having a map/deckplan is very inconvenient to be sure as it does make the setting less elastic. I mostly champion them with the licensed game company because they are mostly produced by third parties that get shut down, sometimes before you can land a copy. An official version would make them more accessible.
But fair enough, your take may still completely opposite to my experience with maps and deck plans, but the world is a large place with many different people. And one thing that makes RPG’s great is that there are so many ways to play them.
I see it. I disagree with it in a number of reasons.
If it were so easy we’d have dozens and dozens of books of that nature wouldn’t we? Over 50 years of Trek we’d just be rolling in books like you describe? Enterprise alone is over 10 years old. So we’re just rolling and rolling in…
Oh wait…
looks around No there aren’t dozens and dozens of books of decent deckplans? But… it’d be SO EASY!!
But… it’s not.
But it wouldn’t be 4 or 5 pages. A nova a lone is 8 decks. And that’s for a very small ship. And you know people will want the Galaxy and Sovereign before they demand the Tiny ships.
The galaxy has 42 Decks, the Sovereign has 29 decks. You’re not getting those on 4 or 5 pages. You’re moving the goal posts to ridiculous. What’s the point of having 4 or 5 decks of a 42 deck ship? And that’s assuming the entire deck of a Galaxy saucer section could fit on an 11 by 17 page and actually be usable.
Which has already been proposed as a reason we might not be getting them now. Modiphius may not be allowed.
NO! I’m sorry but no. Just because you think it would be easy doesn’t make it so. Nor is it feasible. You’d only get a few ships per entire book at a very steep price. Again the Enterprise D alone would be 50+ pages. Because there’s no way a lot of those decks would fit on a single page.
It’s not feasible at all.
Then I would suggest you use those.
That’s great and all but they wern’t on the ones’ you pointed me to. And like I said, it’s a common oversight. One that was simple to point out due to how common it was. By simply going “Oh the ones I have here have the heads on them” doesn’t invalidate it when the ones you could actually link… do not.
It’s not that I don’t like them. It’s that they’re not feasible in a book format at the page count that would be required, and have yet to be satisfactorily done to meet the exacting standards of intense Trek Fans (Far more intense then I) and that Modiphius would get flack for them how ever they tried to do it. It’s much easier for them to just assume people are going to use google and find ones that are imperfect but “Not their problem,”
Indeed, and you have no facts to back your opinion.
And that’s fine. I would suggest you use google or the plans that you have that are so perfect. because you are highly unlikely to get books of deckplans for the RPG
I have ones that I use. Knowing that they’re imperfect, but also realizing that in an RPG, it’s rare that people are going to be installing a toilet main in the ship. Or rewiring the lights on deck 42, or toling away in waste control on deck 34, etc etc etc.
That said, I don’t -expect- such things from a brand new game line with some what small source books and limited releases.
