Legendary units and wave 9 changes

How does the wave 9 changes affect legendary units? For example swan is a non creature super mutant. So his stats would be 0/0/X

Swan is creature type, it would have armor ratings.
Maybe Frank Horrigan would be a good example.

There’s a few units like Frank that would need to be considered. There’s the guy in that gets -2 agi for wearing any Armor or Clothing but has +2 strong armor to make up for it. Some of the changes cause a few units too loose their charm for sure.

If We’re speaking about them they are complete screwed. Had 2\2 +1 armor boost token. And looses 2 agi if wears any armour. And just saying agi for him is HP and melee attack so this destroys the unit if you happen to wear any. Lucius is the same. And i guess It’s about him, Luci had 2+1\2+1 It’s just impossible to compensate him for that and also he has to get his 2 agi back. But they don’t give a thing about it and I bet won’t do anything earlier than in year.
But Horrigan is now Just a beat boy for the caps, lol.

They changed they light armor ability. So they can equip armor and only lose -2 agi when wearing any that has higher stats then 2.

Did they? I can’t see that change in unit’s card list or in the FAQ tbh.

It is in the Rules revision section, Nuka Word book

I see
But apparently those are two different abilities. Unfortunately.
Praetorian has “Unhindered” ability. “Ability” lol.

So his case is not treated. Or If i miss something would be glad to see screen of the necessary passage.

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My bad, i thought it was the same rule… Should be raised as a separate threat :stuck_out_tongue:

for the time being if playing RAW you choose at the time of any Skill or Armor roll what equipment you have equipped. So you can equip armor just for the armor roll, loose 2hp, then unequip on the next skill test or armor roll and gain back that HP. Not the best when loosing 2 hp will drop the unit but it’s something you can do.

And yes, -2agi here does loose HP. See the Butch in Power Armor question in this forum.

That makes the situation even worse
Not only you insta die on have 5 wounds then - or you don’t roll armour, but more than that this means that you can have raider psycho (base movement red) Give him travel light (movement green) AND put on him 4\4 armour as he would just put the armour on only during being hit, lol and this renders his debuff unexisting.

ya. The rules specially call out you choose the armor at the start of your activation but the errata changes all that to when you’re hit (so before you make your armor roll). So you’d have movement penalties until a condition that would let you change that again which are:

  • On hit (errata)
  • Before you draw explore card (leader only as apparently they always resolve them).
  • when you draw and item or pick it up (no rules for this surprisingly that I could find but it’s how many modiphius employees express the intended rule).

Unless you’ve got power armor. Errata calls out you cannot swap that out.

I couldn’t find the rule on skill test. That appears to be a community thing as weapons are swappable before attacks, again no real rule stating so but that’s been confirmed here in the rules forum, so lots of people assume that you can swap out any item that unit is carrying before rolling like weapon. Another area of the game where the rules don’t actually cover it, was probably answered by James years ago and everyone assumes it made it into the errata or was in the rules (including Modiphius employees) but it never has.

But basically the way people assume the game is played the negatives to movement from heavy armor are very easy to skirt around.

Can you share please what an equip and unequip terms mean or where is it write about unequipment for models?
i am understand choosing the items of armor to making armor roll but now it is possible to unequip armor item in Battle mode?

the wording is “A model can set which cards it is using for its Armor Ratings” so if you don’t want any you set none. Prior to wave 9’s changes this is how you’d switch between an armor card and the default value for your card.

Say you were fighting against an opponent with rad and physical damage units.

By default (again pre wave 9 changes) you most units have physical and energy resist but not rad so you buy armor with Rad armor. The rule to swap on hit is so you can deal with different damage types in an opposing army. If you couldn’t “choose” your default armor on your card then once you swapped to rad resist armor you could never go back to physical resist making the rule kind of useless.

If you want more of a rules way to read it you’re choosing the armor value on the unit card as that’s a card that fits the wording: “A model can set which cards it is using for its Armor Ratings”. It just happens to be a card with 0 for all 3 armor values.

Understan this, but this is about choosing armor for armor roll. There is nothing about equipment in terms of units abilities. Is there anything that let to unit not count some armor things that was buy to him as equipped?

This is a pretty challenging thing to fully concept out as FWW isn’t a traditional wargame – it’s a sandbox game and the rules themselves are very vague in lots of areas – Including how to even use equipment that aren’t consumables.

Page 33 has this text under “Using Items” which, technically armor, clothing and weapons are, but it’s likely meant for limited use items even though it’s not expressly stated. But if you want to go with RAW the following sentence could technically be applied to armor as it is an item and it’s under a new header separate from the Limited use section:

Items can be used by any model which has access
to them immediately before or after the model
performs any Action (so it can even be before or
after a Reaction – see ‘Prepare’, p.41).

One could easily say this paragraph lets you can swap out what items your equipped with before or after any action. This has never been errataed to mean limited use (even though the next paragraph heavily suggests that).

Feel free to stop reading here and either accept this rule or scoff at it as from here on out we’re getting super nerdy over word usage and the fact the rules don’t define terms to leave them open to player interpretation and I really won’t blame people for rolling there eyes at it.

But this leads us to a problem. What does access mean? Well on page 32, where armor is defined as an item, it says that “equipped” is the same as “access too” – that leads us to an issue with armor (and weapons too).

None of the armor rules in the core book ever use the word equip. It’s always you choose cards to set. So you do cannot equip armor only set it. This is likely because, by core rules, units always had armor worked in (wave 9 did not change the wording here so all units have armor by default it’s just 0 armor value) and even though you could replace armor values with other item cards you don’t equip them.

The only items that use equipped as a concept in the core book are power armor, clothing and consumables (which is mostly everything but not quite). But even then, we’re never given rules on what equipped actually means – just that we’re limited in how many we can have and that it means you have access to an item (this also brings up the lack of rules on searchables and finding items. If you find clothing, but have clothing, do you discard one as you can only have access to one by the rules? The core rules don’t ever cover what you do with items when you draw them from the wasteland deck).

Weapons and mods also do not use this terminology. Mods you attach and weapons just exist (there’s no rules for selecting them).

Units (as in groups of generics) mention they have access to all the equipped items but weapons and armor never say you equip them unlike everything else. However, units have an exception for weapons saying they’re included despite weapons not being something you equip in the rules (this also was not updated in wave 9 to add armor here so units cannot share armor because you do not equip armor by the armor rules).

*(Unit cards do use the term equipped, and include weapons, but there are no rules stating what that means but we’ve been told it means a unit starts with those items at no extra cost. This has been errated into the campaign book as “non-optional equipment” – but no clarification on the cap cost likely because those are optional – but the campaign book is optional rules and not part of the core rules by comments here in this forum so that’s a different beast then what we’re talking about here.)

So the concept of armor being equipped doesn’t exist in the game – though we really don’t even know what equipped means in the core rules as there’s no definition of what that term means and everything we have is based off of what we’ve been told by modiphius employees including just how items are supposed to work because the game was written for none of that to matter.

But things like this do matter to players – especially with battlemode existing.

And now were discussing how the words equipped and set affect the word wearing. Set has some rules for armor while Equipped and Wearing do not so we have to make a lot of assumptions based off of the words themselves which leads to the problem you’re asking about is FWW (even in battlemode) is all about people’s personal interpretation of words/terms that have no rules and how they’re supposed to fit into a game that is purposefully vague on core concepts so people can create the game they want.

In closing I cannot truly answer your question “if the ruleset we’re presented allows you do not use an item you have equipped” as it can only be decided by you for what you personally feel the words “Equipped”, “set” and “Wearing” mean for the games you’re playing.

And posts like this are likely why Dom set up a google forms document that doesn’t have a decent sized textbox for writing out multi-paragraph blobs of text that makes him pine for the weekends where he doesn’t have to deal with stuff like this.

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thanks for the detailed answer! so as i understand we eventually have not any way to equip and unequip armor during game in Battlemode other than by both players desision.

  • Any Legendary Unit would just have their current armor. I think they are all (apart from one unique case, which I’ll touch on in a bit) Creatures or Robots, so they’d retain their armor. Frank we have just allowed to keep their armor because they are a special case.
  • Remove ‘Unhindered’ from the Praetorian Guard and Lucius.

Thanks Dom. Makes sense for Frank as well since he’s fused into his armor an cannot take it off if I remember correctly.