Dune Movie Thread

[CountThalim]

Given news on the Dune RPG is likely to be fairly sparse until much nearer release date I thought we could spend some of the time between now and then on the new movie that has kickstarted all of the resurgent interest in the Book.

So this is basically a thread for any random articles and similar that people find about the Dune movie and other non-RPG stuff out there.

Vanity Fair (Not my usual reading material, thanks @Sylestamy for pointing this one out to me. Not that I would say this is yours either…) has an exclusive article on the new film with some nice photos of the costumes, mainly Atreides and Fremen.

[Warduke]

Like the look and feel of the film so far. Some of the changes will be hard for us Dune fans.

[Trippy]

[Ehrman]

I’m surprised by the bland and uninspired costume design here. Isn’t Villeneuve supposed to be a visionary auteur? This looks like a Syfy channel production.

[Trippy]

What do you want them to wear?

[Valyar]

Maybe those are inspired costumes…

[Trippy]

[Valyar]

Those are dressed to kill! The sardukars will never have a chance.

[Ehrman]

Seriously though. Did you see the Vanity Fair photos… the armor in particular? Dune has always been a canvas for truly inspired art direction. Of course, I suppose it’s more important that it comes together as film for once. But this is bad work. Like a vapid modernist opera staged in the hideous Opéra Bastille. We’ve seen this armor before. We’ve seen the ships in the background before. It looks like a low-budget television production with recycled props.

[Valyar]

I have seen few pictures from the movie, so I really can’t say, but you are right - the Vanity ones are just… ok. Polished version of the style used in the old movies. Not “wow” effect for sure. But the uniforms in one of the shots where people are rallied indeed look bland. I want to see how the sardukars will look like, the Harkonen dynasty before judging. When pictures start moving it might be much more different.

Time will tell. I am with negative expectations, at least this way the chance for disappointment is less.

[Warduke]

TOR’s take

Everything We Learned About Denis Villeneuve’s Dune From Vanity Fair’s Big...

[Trippy]

My view is its too early to tell on any of this. Lowering expectations is OK, but all we’ve seen is a few stills of the movie so far and a few run of the mill promotions in magazines.

My major concern is that we don’t do a ‘Star Wars’ in terms of building such an online storm before the movie releases that people can’t go into the film without a preformed opinion already. Discussing and analysing all these things is cool, but I wouldn’t personally raise or lower expectations, I’d just wait for the movie in full when it comes and remember that it is just a movie.

[JohnnieRico]

I disagree with much of the above. I thought the pics look great.

The stillsuits especially look much better. The previous ones looked almost like bike tire intertubes wrapped around the people. While I ‘get’ what they were going for, those things looked like they’d pop if you sat down wrong. The ones from the new movie look like things you could actually move around in a harsh desert environment in with out ripping them to shreds. (Being a very hot natured guy myself I think they’d kill me before i got used to them but still).

The armor that we’ve seen looks fine for me. They’re going for utility instead of flash. They’re not trying to be Buck Rodgers or Star Wars. They’re looking for stuff that would stop or turn a blade. As for “We’ve seen this before” well… yeah… it’s armor… on humans. There’s only so much variation… because it has to be … you know… Armor… that humans can wear. Sure you can get flashy with it but flash in armor is actually counter productive. The more intricate it is, the more places of weakness and or a weapon can catch. The Armor we’ve seen looks a bit sci fi like, but not ‘fantastical’. It looks like the sort of things people might wear, when projectile weapons are largely a thing of the past due to shield tech (And lasers are never used due to that same tech and resulting in atomic explosion), the armor needed is stuff to turn blades. Knife fighting is ‘the’ manner of combat in Dune. It’s why the Fremen’s attack at the end of the book was such a thing. In the day of shields, shooting someone with bullets or rockets would be laughed at. But on Dune, the sandstorms could short out shields, Thus making it ‘viable’ but only in certain circumstance. I.E. that only works once. Then your enemy is wise to it. Paul held that back till his prey was in his trap and used it to devastating effect.

But yeah the armor looks fine to me too. Had they gone ‘smaller’ or more ‘realistic’ people would just say they looked like swat guys, or stormtroopers.

I’m liking what I’m seeing so far.

I suspect though… I know what some people above are alluding to. The 'Changes" and what not.

When I saw they’d made Keynes a woman I was like “Oh great. Here we go”

NOT because I Mind, but I knew some man babies would freak out.

When they cast Zendaya, I thought it fit nicely, especially with the description from the book, but again, I was like “You watch. People are going to freak”.

I suspect I, and all of you, know the true reason for people disliking both of these ‘changes’. And frankly. I don’t care. I’m 100% fine with them both.

I also suspect those with those reasons will loudly protest and use faux ‘reasons’ to try and justify their anger and disgust over it.

I’ll also say that anyone with half a mind is going to see through these shows of outrage and see what is really motivating it.

MY Biggest concern was Timothee Chalamet as Paul. I don’t know enough about the guy to know if he can carry the movie. I’ll have to wait and see, but so far the movie -looks- great.

[CountThalim]

I’d certainly agree on the stillsuits. They look practical and rugged.
What I would expect from a group of people who do not have a formal manufacturing structure and whose wearing of them is for survival not style.

The armour… We will see. I am torn on it at the moment. I will need to see more than 2 shots to make my mind up on it.
It is a change from the book, but the games have frequently shown troops wearing armour (normally to identify heavy infantry) and the British army to this day still equips some of its ceremonial guards with Cuirassiers. In a universe where projectiles are less of a thing I can see the personal guard of a Duke having ceremonial armour as standard.

Liet Keynes as a woman? Fine. Nothing in the book requires the character to be male in the way that Jessica has to be female.
You are right that some people will object to any changes from what they expect, but films are always an interpretation of the original source material.

One other thing I have spotted while trawling the net for news is the composer is Hans Zimmer so we should be in for a good soundtrack to support the movie.

[Warduke]

There were bound to be changes due to media change and a jump in time between when the book was written and when the movie was produced. I’m sure that the Web will be on fire with outrage over these changes and the nasty underbelly of my culture, the American culture, will show it’s self. I tend to ignore stupidity. I have many years of practice.

Physical armor is a change due to going from a written media to a visual one. The director is know for his use of the visual media. I don’t see that as having changed in few stills we have seen.

The director has stated that the change on gender for Keynes was due to a lack of female roles within the original story and that he felt a diplomat character was better represented by a female. Thankfully American society has taken a few steps forward since 1970 and woman have a bigger role in our society.

One of the changes I am excited about is change in Jessica’s role from nun to warrior monk. While I believe this was implied in their training. The character development in the book wasn’t a warrior, at least not at the time of the novels.

The Modiphius team will need to walk a fine line between staying true to the books and attracting fans of the new movie duology to their RPG.

Please don’t start a flame war over politics. This is a thread on the Dune movie and the Dune RPG.

[CountThalim]

@Warduke

One of the changes I am excited about is change in Jessica’s role from nun to warrior monk. While I believe this was implied in their training. The character development in the book wasn’t a warrior, at least not at the time of the novels.

When they met in the desert Jessica was expressly identified by Stilgar as a fighter who could best an armed Fremen. And that those were skills he wanted her to teach them.
I agree that part has been ignored in the adaptions ever since.

It will be interesting to see how Villeneuve does the weighting of the various aspects of Jessica though.
Fighter, Consort, Mother, Spy (for the BG).

She is one of the most complicated characters in the book and that is some tough competition.

[Trippy]

Yep, I’d just say that Jessica’s role, in the books, was as a Bene Gesserit. Although this is a sisterhood, which would imply nuns, they were physically and mentally trained to levels that outsiders observed as being supernatural. They weren’t supernatural, in fact, but supernatural perspectives were cultivated, as part of their other social manipulations. Anyway, they could fight.

[Warduke]

I could be wrong but, been a couple years since I have read Dune, but I don’t believe the warrior aspect was emphasized. It definitely was not in the two film adaptations. I was quoting Villeneuve anyhow, the change was his opinion. I’m sure it ties to the TV series in production.

The actress portraying Jessica has a fairly wide range and has done a bit of action before. She actually seems to be getting top billing on imdb, lol.

[aramis]

Jessica herself is a competent fighter… this is relevant in the prequels. She prefers to think past fights. We see that the BG trained men in Chapterhouse are bloody lethal… and they know the women are more so. But even then, no one can hold off the horde forever if it is set to kill one.

I love the look of the stillsuits, am not at all concerned about armor…

and Liet-Kynes as a woman? makes Chani all that more special… a woman strong enough for the fremen? And who lets her daughter be raised by the fremen? It pushes the “going native” aspect of Liet-Kynes. I’m hopeful for the movie - after all, this is the movie that got him complaints to the DGA and SAG about quizzing folks about the books.

[JohnnieRico]

She was a fighter in the book. As pointed out above when Jessica and Paul are found in the desert by Stilgar and his band, Jamis was all for taking their water as a gift from Shai-Hulud. Stilgar points out that these were clearly the ones they were sent to find. There was some back and forth and Stilgar walks up and basicly says “I’ll give your son scantuary in my tribe, but we’re going to kill you and drink your water. I hope you understand”

She feigns a faint and Paul dives for cover and then there’s a brief fight, where in Jessica bests Stilgar and backs up with him in a joint lock.

Paul Found Jaims in the dark, disarms him of his pistol and starts to climb up to a rock overlook.

The rest of the unit is pressing in on Stilgar and he roars at them BACK YOU SAND LICE or something, poiting out if they don’t she’ll break his neck. They still press in a bit more and he yells at them again to get back.

He assures Jessica that she is safe now, that if she can best --the strongest of them–, that she’s worth more than anything to the Fremen. They call it her “Wierding way of battle” and if she agrees to teach them they will have a place for her. She agrees.

Later on in the Cave of birds, she and Stilgar sort of step aside, and he pretty much tells her “Look I know you can kill me at will. But they (As a group) wouldn’t follow you as you did, we have to smoothe this out” And they do so by Jessica becoming one of their priestesses, a Sayyadina.

But yes, in the books it was clearly pointed out how badass Jessica was. She just wasn’t a front line fighter.

She bested Stilgar, who was the strongest and best fighter of the Fremen. ( or at least high enough to hold his troop and stiench, and 'Perhaps in time speak for all fremen"). Remember the Fremen were so badass that they took out Imperial Sadakar at a rate that positively alarmed anyone that heard of it being done. During the Harkonnen Invasion, the Fremen helping Hawat asked about the Artillery. Someone snaps “If you’re so curious take one of the guns” and the Fremen was all “Oh we did” and They were shocked as there were Sadakar at every gun. The Fremen was like “yeah we lost two guys” as if that was a big deal and the Atraties forces were blown away. “These men casually speak of losing ONLy two men against Sadakar”.

And Jessica bested the Strongest.

Yes, her martial prowess was established in the books.