Complication Range vs Target Number Overlap

Complication Range 1-4 is fine, but once you get to 5 (Treacherous) being16-20 it gets a bit confusing. If I and using X SPECIAL and it is 10 with 6 ranks in X skill the TN is 16. Does the complication range override the TN? What if it is a Tagged Skill, does that effect the check in any way if the complication range is now 16-20?

In my opinion there’s no problem with the overlap - it just means the deice can bring both a success AND a complication at the same time. ‘You nailed the bad guy, but now your spear’s stuck in his guts and his buddies don’t look happy’

2 Likes

I was thinking that, and I would be fine with that explanation if it was actually in the book. At the very least part of a sentence under Success at a Cost saying “…;like when your TN is 16 while rolling with a treacherous complication range (16-20)”. Sadly this is just some of the many things the core book seems to be missing like gambling (Luck + Int or maybe Perception in this system?), vehicles (bicycles, motorcycles, vertibirds, wagons, carts, trucks, highwayman, and so on), crafting weapons (spears, hand guns, deathclaw gauntlet, rifles, pipe weapons, and so on), and an over head example wasteland maps with ranges and cover (the interior explanation / cutaway map is nice though). Maybe some of this is in the gamemaster kit, but I don’t have that. Ultimately this is why I am still waiting to buy a physical copy until I’m sure there is a printing that has the many stat and list fixes along with other errata; since I prefer physical books over pdf.

It’s important to remember that a Complication does not negate a success. So you an both succeed at the roll and get a Complication.

The things you’re looking for - gambling, vehicles and weapon crafting aren’t part of Fallout 4, which seems to be where the license is focused. Licensed properties are tricky as to what can and can’t be included.

1 Like

I understand complications and success I just wish the overlap was explained so there was no confusion. All I’m looking for is a simple confirmation that it would be Success at a Cost in an updated errata or something.

As far as everything else goes there should be no reason that a future supplement can’t include weapon and armor crafting; someone has to make the raider armors, pipe guns, and deathclaw gauntlets after all. Crafting and vehicles in a game are not something you can copyright; it’s sadly more likely that they just haven’t gotten to things like that yet in any way. It is still a bit disappointing there isn’t something to play with until then (like a peddle powered box car, or row boat, or something). Settlement building from 4 isn’t in the game yet either, but you can still make general assumptions on how that could work easy enough even if it’s home brew.

If things like piloting was meant to be for NPCs only the book would have mentioned that. Besides a bicycle isn’t that hard to make; even if the tires are strips of car tires melted together and attached to a thin rim, and the chain and simple gears mostly comes from some busted chainsaws and the like (common or uncommon junk depending on the area?). Wagons and carts are not that difficult to make either. In NCR territories and around New Vegas at this time there are bound to be all sorts of vehicles / carts with and without engines; even if most are nothing more than boxes on wheels. The Legion would also have carts and wagons for sure.

Rules wise I can also see it costing a minor action to get on and off (or in and out of) most vehicles. I can also see something like a bike moving twice as far when using the the move minor action and sprint major action; with a difficulty of 0-1 pilot test in most terrain (you would need to get off a bike to go up stairs though). A highwayman would easily be three to four times as fast, and a vertibird would normally be four times as fast and ignore almost all terrain (except mountains and the like), weather, and similar changes. For mods: fuel efficiency, cargo space, car tire chains for winter, a side car, a snow plow, armor, bike skis for winter, and bike floats for simple water travel all come to mind.

The thing is that it’s not Success At a Cost. It’s similar-ish but not the same. Success at a Cost is you will succeed but the cost is X. Rolling a Complication is you succeeded because your roll was good but there’s an added factor.

Everything else…depends on the license. Like maybe simple vehicles were pitched (there is a pilot skill) and Bethesda said “that doesn’t really sound like our game”. It’s not enough to say something can’t be copywrited/trademarked. If the licensor says no, then it doesn’t happen. Not saying that’s the case, but there’s a monumental gap between a post apocalyptic game and the official licensed Fallout game. IIRC the license also only currently support some of the Fallout games but not others. Mainly Fallout 3 and 4.

People are 100% free to “mod” the game however they like and there’s some truly great fan supplements out there but official stuff is a ton of paperwork and approvals for everything. Some licensors are experienced (Paramount with Star Trek), some are new and dipping their toes in, like Bethesda.

Then there is still no real answer to my question. I get Complications and Success at a Cost, but If it’s not really success at a cost It’s just another big blank spot in the rules. Luckily I doubt I’ll even run into this question or at least I won’t run into it any time soon. If it ever comes up I’ll just wing in as a success with a cost more in favor of the one making the check in some way (since it’s not really the same as a normal complication / failure).

The complication range and the succes range are independent from each other - in the most extreme case (skill at 16, complication on 20-16) rolling a 16 means got get both a succes and a complication for that dice.

The complications don’t reduces the rolled success (and vice-versa), they can very well mix on the same roll. The complication don’t impact the result of the test (as in you still get the same number of success and can use them normaly), they just add some , well complications you need to deal with afterward.

When I play Star Trek I counted this as a success and also a complication, it was quite funny when it happened (at least 3 times in my games). Increasing the complication range is my favorite way to increase tension as a game master.

I think Star Trek’s rules address what happens when you get a success and a complication. Do Fallout’s not? Because if someone rolls a dice at an overlapping number, that’s no different from a non-overlap where two dice are a success, and the third is a 20.

If it was there I couldn’t find it; even when searching for keywords.