Is there any point to taking the Seducer Talent from the Persuade tree? For 400 xp it lets you have two d20s per Momentum or Doom spent, rather than just the one. But according the description, it applies only for an attempt at seduction. For 200 xp you can just get another rank of Naturally Charming (which is a prerequisite for Seducer anyway), and get another d20, and at the same time enjoy wider applicability. Is there something I’m missing, or is this another one of those Talents in need of an overhaul?
Naturally Charming gives you +1 Bonus Momentum per Rank of this Talent, not additional dice.
So if you want to save on generating Doom or using Group Momentum, the Seducer Talent saves 1 Doom or 1 Momentum.
Both have very different applications - to make use of Naturally Charming, you have to have the minimum amount of Successes needed in the first place, then Bonus Momentum is added, so it is applied after the dice roll.
Seducer is applied before the dice roll.
I concur, Seducer has a very narrow application field, and for 400 XP it is probably not worth it compared to other Talents for 400 XP or to buy two Ranks of Naturally Charming.
Compare Seducer (Persuade) to Deft Blade (Melee) Talent.
Whenever you make a melee attack, any Momentum spent or points added to Doom to add bonus d20s to the Melee test adds two dice instead of one, though the normal limit of three bonus d20s still applies.
When attempting a seduction, you gain two additional d20s to your Persuade test per Momentum spent or Doom generated, instead of one, though the normal limit of three additional d20s still applies.
The difference for those two Talents which both cost 400 XP is, that the Melee Talent applies ALWAYS, on any kind of Melee attack, while the Persuade Talent only applies in the - rather rare - case of a very specific application of the Persuade skill.
Were the Melee Talent equally restricted, it would state the circumstances when it applies like for example “when attempting a Melee attack to disarm an opponent” or “when attempting a Melee attack against an opponent using a shield” or other restricting factors. But it is not limited in it’s application at all.
Lifting the Persuade Talent “Seducer” up to similar “power” would mean that it could be used on ALL Persuade tests, or at least on all Persuade attack tests - like in Threaten attacks.
The way it is written makes it an exceedingly costly Talent which applies only in the rarest situations.
Cheers, I had confused Naturally Charming with Strong-arm Tactics and assumed it was bonus dice instead of bonus Momentum. So you could for example have three ranks of Naturally Charming and still fail the original Persuade roll. That makes sense. Still a better investment than Seducer though. On the other hand, there is Intimidate which grants extra SUCCESSES. (Though in a different circumstance, I hope! Unless your seduction involves bd-sm presumably )
In Infinity there is the Enticer (Persuade) Talent, a 200 XP Talent, that comes in up to 3 Ranks:
When using affection, physical attraction, or the promise of sexual favours as part of negotiation, the character gains a number of bonus d20s equal to their ranks in Enticer. (The normal limit of three bonus d20s still applies.)
That still has the situational limitation, but is similar to Conan’s Strong-arm Tactics.
Interestingly, Infinity’s threaten Talent, Intimidator (Persuade), comes without ranks and is similar to Conan’s Seducer (Persuade) Talent:
When attempting to intimidate an opponent, the character gains two d20s to their Persuade test per Momentum spent (instead of the normal one). The normal limit of three bonus d20s still applies.
But this Intimidator Talent is a 200 XP Talent, not a 400 XP one.
As I read the talent you get 2 dices for 1 momentum, if rules of Conan are like STA rules it’s a 2 momentum less to spend on a limited pool. I like this talent. And Seduction in Conan books and comics is a huge part of the story.
No, in Conan the first d20 costs 1 Momentum, the second costs 1 Momentum and the third costs 1 Momentum, too.
In STA the first costs 1 Momentum, the second costs 2 Momentum, the third costs 3 Momentum.
In Conan you save only 1 Momentum for this 400 XP Talent.
And regarding seduction, the Naturally Charming Talent with up to +3 Bonus Momentum helps a lot more than simply saving 1 Momentum before the roll, as most seduction actions will be opposed, so Bonus Momentum helps you win the opposed test much more likely.
And in the REH Conan novels seduction is a very rare thing, indeed. In some stories someone tries to seduce Conan, usually to no success as he is quite resistant to such things. And in the few cases where Conan tries to seduce (or more or less simply take) a women, that usually turns out not to be successful (as with Valeria of the Red Brotherhood for example).
Maybe in the Conan pastiche novels by other authors that became a thing, but Conan 2d20 set out to rely on REH’s Conan only. So seduction happens, yes. But in a way that it justifies even a skill test? Very rarely. - During Downtime, off the camera, all the time, but without any skill test necessary.