Oriëntal weapons

Conan: Adventures In an Age Undreamed Of
1

We are going to start with Conan the RPG and I’m playing a Kithai character.
I would like him to wield a special and cool oriëntal weapon called the kyoketsu-shoge-knife (https://allninjagear.com/ninja-assassin-kyoketsu-shoge-knife / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl7QnmuW-ow).
I own all the books but I can’t seem to find anything that remoteley resembles it for statistics.
I was thinking the following:
Kyoketsu-shoge-knife (Flexible weapon): Reach: 3 / Damage: 3 dice / Size: 2H /Quallities: Grapple, Knockdown, Vicious 1 / Cost: 8 / Encumbrance 1.

Are there any experienced GM or players that can give comment on this statistic.

2

i’d take the stats of a whip and combine it with a knifes stats.

well the damage is the same so 3 damage dice, but give it 2 handed for i think its hard to weild it with only one hand, what is a disadventage but then give it the vicious 1 and then the fearsom 2 from the whip, the hiiden quality i’d keep away for it beeing hard to hide the rope of it .
thats what comes to my mind first

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3

i agree with you in almost everything but the knockdown quality.
i honestly not understand, why it should have knockdown

4

I think the OP intends to trip with it, like wrap around the target’s foot and pull.

5

well i get it now, but for me that pullinng attack kinda seems more like any weird way of another attack, first you attack and grapple it then you attack again and try to pull the enemy and i think its already covered with the grapple quality.
i kinda have a prpblem with saying its knockdown for the attack for the attack doesnt realy generate the force to bring you down itsself.
if you ague like that every staff weapon would have knockdown since you can use it to strike away the enemys legs with a hooking movement,
also you can use the lower side of an axehead to hook a enemys foot and then pull his leg so he falls down, which is possible but in my opinion isnt enough to give a weapon a knockndown quality.
for i interpret" knockdown" as generating enough force with the weapons wight and the speed of your strike to bring dow the enemy through the kinetic energy

6

Thanks for the replies.
It is indead like a wrap around the target’s foot and pull.
I understand ExhumierterErzeuger interpretation on the knockdown, and I agree on it.
But how can you then simulate target’s foot and pull in the conan rules (using a whip or other flexible item).
I know that the Pugilist talent allows you to add the Knockdown quality on any melee attack you make.
But the path towards that talent is based on athletics and is considered a feat of might not a feat of elegance and weapon training like that is the case in many martial arts. In infinity RPG you can spend momentum to knockdown a target but this option is not present in Conan. You can always spend momentum to make a called shot but the effects of that are not descibed safe for armor damage.
Any ideas?

7

It looks like a fancy bottle/letter opener on a really long keychain. Weapon of choice for a scribe with a penchant for strong ales :grinning:

Seriously though, I would skip the Knockdown altogether, whether it comes from weapon Qualities or Talents, and just work the “trip function” into the Grapple Quality somehow.

8

well how about just talking to the other players about that idea:

step1:
attack the enemy , if you hit the enemy, roll the damage dices, and use the grapple feature as usual
step 2:
attack again , if you hit , roll damage dices again .
check if the enemy is still grappled ,
if yes then maybe just ask the players if it is ok to put the enemy prone for a effekt,
because you need to tie his leg first, and first then you can pull his leg

9

The urumi sword from the wanderer book could be a good base to start with.
Its a whip like sword

10

This is the latest version:
Kyoketsu-shoge: Reach 3, Damage 3, Size 2H, Cost 6, Encumbrance 1, Fearsome 2, Grapple, Vicious 1.

This weapon is a double edged blade, attached to approximately 10 to 18 feet (3–5 m) chain (or rope) which then ends in a large metal ring (o small metal ball). The blade could be used for pulling slashes as well as thrusting stabs. The chain could be used for climbing, ensnaring an enemy, binding an enemy and many such other uses. The long range of the weapon combined a cutting tool along with the capability to strike or entangle an enemy at what the user perceived to be a ‘safe’ distance out of the way. When skilled with this weapon it could be used to entangle a sword and rip it from the opponents hands rendering him harmless, or the ring or ball can also can also be used to wrap around an enemy’s legs and trip them. If you roll a leg location (or use moment to take a called shot) the grappling quality can be changed to the knockdown quality.
Tell me if it is balanced enough.

12

With Fearsome 2, it’s a pretty effective little minion-killer. Let’s say your character has a 10 Brawn and so does 5 [cd] with the kyoketsu-shoge (ky-sh for short). An average minion has 4-5 Resolve, so if the ky-sh wielder gets 2 Effects, a 4-Resolve minion was just eliminated (fled/died of heart attack/went mad/however your GM explains taking a Trauma). If the ky-sh wielder gets 3 Effects, you’ve just eliminated most minions – minions with >6 Resolve are very rare.

You might think “that’s not very likely with only 5 [cd],” but remember that for 1 Momentum you can reroll any number of combat dice in your pool. You could choose to reroll any that didn’t roll a 5 or a 6, which gives you a pretty good chance of getting two Effects (~70%) and a reasonable chance to get 3 (~40%). And if you also have No Mercy and a few Melee talents, that’s even more likelihood of getting 3+ Effects!

I think it’s a good weapon with Fearsome 1.

13

The weapon should really consist of two parts (although it’s technically two-handed) - the rope (I’d imagine chain would get too heavy and unwieldy for the length of the weapon) and iron ring, and then the knife part, and would be wielded as if they were two different weapons from the rules PoV.
The rope part I would say had two attack modes, either a grappling attack with that quality, or a direct stun attack if using the ring as a more direct attack, both with probably 2 or 3 dice damage. The primary effect and intention of the rope side of the weapon is to entangle the opponent, so that they can then be attacked with the knife part. The damage is a funny one here so I’d probably go with 3 dice Nonlethal as you need enough to be able to grapple a target, but you’re not damaging that target quite so much (this is the job of the knife).

The knife should function as a normal knife (3 damage) except without the Hidden and Improvised qualities, and with grappling (the hook is used for this purpose) and with Unforgiving against targets that are grappled by the rope - its purpose is to entangle then exploit the now-vulnerable target. The knife part can be able to be used (contrary to the normal grappling rules) against a different target than the rope half of the weapon without releasing the target of that rope half. It should also have Parrying as the knife blade and the “notch” between the blade and the back of the hook is used to catch or deflect sword attacks, traditionally.

Personally I’m not so sure about the Fearsome quality as it’s more designed to restrain people and then either tie them up or to exploit their immobility “with extreme prejudice”, but if you escape the entanglement then it’s not so dangerous/scary. I’d also definitely use Unforgiving or Vicious only against entangled targets as the hook makes the weapon a little unbalanced compared to a regular knife/dagger, but a tied up target is nailed (hence Unforgiving rather than Vicious).

My background from these opinions comes from a martial art that I’ve studied for 20 years, in which we use this weapon - although not regularly, enough to have a good familiarity with how it’s used. I’ve also been to Japan and have been in a couple of classes where our grandmaster talked about this weapon and showed how it was traditionally used. You’d often have 3 or 4 people armed with them who would try to surround a swordsman and try to entangle him with the ropes and them move in and pin down his sword with the knife parts. I have a training one hanging on my wall with a large rubber dog-chew-toy ring in place of the iron ring as that gives you enough weight to throw it without braining anyone you hit (although those rings can still give you a bit of a clout). It also has enough weight to do interesting stuff like throw it over your opponent, and then pull the rope back quickly which causes the ring to whip round and either entangle them further or hit them from behind on the way back.

With regard to catching swords, you’re looking at more of a kusari-gama with a chain which would be rather shorter and have a noticeably shorter reach. The weight of a chain does significantly reduce the length you can effectively wield, which makes it shorter range weapon. With a rope you have to be a lot more accurate to be able to specifically entangle and disarm a sword, plus there’s the chance of it being cut by the weapon - ropes are more about just disabling the person as a whole, and thus the weapon by proxy, than specifically attacking the weapon.

Hope this helps.

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14

Thanks for the replies.
Mad-Halfling cool that you trained with this weapon. I also practice Martial Arts for several years but never got the chance to train with this weapon.
I take a go at it one more time:

Kyoketsu-shoge:
This weapon consist of 2 different 1H weapons that are linked together. A double edged blade, attached to approximately 10 to 18 feet (3–5 m) chain (or rope) which then ends in a small metal ball (or ring). The blade could be used for pulling slashes as well as thrusting stabs. The chain or rope could be used for climbing, ensnaring an enemy, binding an enemy and many such other uses. The long range of the weapon combined a cutting tool along with the capability to strike or entangle an enemy at what the user perceived to be a ‘safe’ distance out of the way. When skilled with this weapon it could be used to entangle a sword and rip it from the opponents hands rendering him harmless, or it can also be used to wrap around an enemy’s legs and trip them.
Blade: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 0, Cost 5, Linked (Chain), Parry, Unforgiving 1
Chain: Reach 3, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 0, Cost 5, Linked (Blade), Entangling, Vicious 1.

NEW QUALITIES:
Linked: Two one handed weapons are linked together usually with a chain or lengthy piece of rope. The weapons are considered 2 handed weapons for disarming purposes.
Entangling: The Grappling and Knockdown momentum spend cost only 1 momentum.

NEW MOMENTUM SPENDS:
Grapple (2 momentum): Your attack gains the grappling quality.
Takedown (2 momentum): Your attack gains the takedown quality.

NEW TALENTS:
Dual weapon expert:
Prerequisite: No Mercy, Melee Expertise 3
Choose two 1h melee weapons. When wielding them they gain the paired quality.

Flexible weapon expert:
Prerequisite: No Mercy, Melee Expertise 3
When wielding a flexible weapon it gains the entangle quality. If it already has this quality it gain the grappling and takedown quality instead.

Grappler (Reworked):
Prerequisite: No Mercy or Open Hand
Your unarmed attacks gain the entangle quality.

Ground Fighting:
Prerequisite: Grappler, Melee Expertise 2.
You suffer no penalties when fighting lying on the ground. Further opponents get no bonus to attack you when you are prone.

Human shield:
Prerequisite: Grappler, Deflection, Parry Expertise 3.
When grappling you can use the target as a shield and use the Parry skill on a Reaction. If the parry succeeds the attacker rolls damage and applies it to the grappled target. When the grappled target is dead you must stop the grapple.

Iron Cloth:
Prerequisite: No Mercy, Melee Expertise 2
You handle any flexible piece of equipment as a Garrote.

Kick:
Prerequisite: Smash, Melee Expertise 2
You can use your legs to attack. Increase the reach of your unarmed attack by 1, and you can still attack without penalty when holding something in your hand or when your hands are bound.

Shields Expert:
Prerequisite: Deflection, Parry Expertise 2
You may re-roll a number Shield Cover dice equal to the total number of Parry talents (and ranks in those talents) you have acquired, if desired. You must accept the results of the re-rolls.

Smash (Reworked):
Prerequisite: Open Hand, Melee Expertise 2
You can marshal your focus and deliver powerful blows. When delivering an unarmed blow, you deal an additional +1 damage and your unarmed attacks loose the Improvised quality.

NEW WEAPONS:
Bola: Reach C, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Improvised, Takedown
Chain Whip: Reach 3, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Entangling, Fearsome1, Vicious 1.
Chakram: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 0, Cost 5, Thrown, Vicious 1.
Kama: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Piercing 1, Vicious 1.
Kunai: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 0, Cost 5, Hidden 1, Parrying, Thrown, Unforgiving 1
Manriki-Gusari: Reach 2, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 0, Cost 5, Entangling, Vicious 1.
Nunchaku: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Piercing 1, Stun
Rope Dart: Reach 3, Damage 3, Size 2H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Entangling, Fearsome1, Piercing 1.
Sai: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 0, Cost 5, Parry, Paired, reduces the Momentum cost of a Disarm by 1.
Shuriken: Reach C, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Hidden 1, Volley
Tonfa: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Parry, Paired, Stun.

15

I like the new Momentum spends. It makes sense that you can theoretically Grapple and Knockdown with any weapon.

I think you mean Knockdown.

The Paired quality on its own doesn’t do anything. It’s called Paired (X), so e.g. Paired (Vicious 1).

16

copy
paste

Phounix, not sure if I’m going to use all of your new Talents and rules, but very nice job and I’m certainly going to use many of them! :smiley:

17

Here is an other update:
I changed the Linked quality and aded a new talents and weapons

New Talents:

Dragons Tail:
Prerequisite: Smash, Melee Expertise 2
You can use your legs to attack. Increase the reach of your unarmed attack by 1, and you can still attack without penalty when holding something in your hand or when your hands are bound.

Dual weapon expert:
Prerequisite: No Mercy, Melee Expertise 3
Choose two 1h melee weapons. When wielding them they gain the paired (vicious 1) quality.

Flexible weapon expert:
Prerequisite: No Mercy, Melee Expertise 3
When wielding a flexible weapon it gains the entangle quality. If it already has this quality it gain the grappling and takedown quality instead.

Grappler (Reworked):
Prerequisite: No Mercy or Open Hand
Your unarmed attacks gain the entangle quality.

Ground Fighting:
Prerequisite: Grappler, Melee Expertise 2.
You suffer no penalties when fighting lying on the ground. Further opponents get no bonus to attack you when you are prone.

Human shield:
Prerequisite: Grappler, Deflection, Parry Expertise 3.
When grappling you can use the target as a shield and use the Parry skill on a Reaction. If the parry succeeds the attacker rolls damage and applies it to the grappled target. When the grappled target is dead you must stop the grapple.

Iron Cloth:
Prerequisite: No Mercy, Melee Expertise 2
You handle any flexible piece of equipment as a Garrote.

Joint-Lock:
Prerequisite: Grappler
You hold the target in a joint-lock. When the grappled target fails to escape he suffers your unarmed damage.

Shields Expert:
Prerequisite: Deflection, Parry Expertise 2
You may re-roll a number Shield Cover dice equal to the total number of Parry talents (and ranks in those talents) you have acquired, if desired. You must accept the results of the re-rolls.

Smash (Reworked):
Prerequisite: Open Hand, Melee Expertise 2
You can marshal your focus and deliver powerful blows. When delivering an unarmed blow, you deal an additional +1 damage and your unarmed attacks loose the Improvised quality.

New combat Momentum spends:
Grappling (2 Momentum): The attack gains the Grappling quality.
Knockdown (2 Momentum): The attack gains the Knockdown quality.

New Weapon Qualities (or reworked)
Entangling: The Grappling and Knockdown momentum spend cost only 1 momentum.
Grappling: (Addition) Add the following: When paying 1 momentum the grappler may take the Adjust free action without releasing the target, the target must move along.
Linked: Two one handed weapons are linked together usually with a chain or piece of rope. When adding this quality to a weapos it loosses the hidden and thrown qualities. When drawing one of the two weapons you can draw the second weapon with the same minor action. Additionally when one of the two weapons is disarmed you can retrieve the second weapon as a free action.

New Weapons:
Bola: Reach C, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Improvised, Takedown
Chain Whip: Reach 3, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Entangling, Fearsome1, Vicious 1.
Chakram: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 0, Cost 5, Thrown, Vicious 1.
Kama: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Piercing 1, Vicious 1.
Kunai: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 0, Cost 5, Hidden 1, Parrying, Thrown, Unforgiving 1
Kusarigama : Kama and Chain (Kama one hand, Chain in the other) with the Linked Quality.
Kyoketsu-shoge: Parrying Dagger and Chain (Dagger one hand, Chain in the other) with the Linked Quality.
Manriki-Gusari: Reach 2 (or 3 for longer chains), Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 0, Cost 5, Entangling, Vicious 1.
Nunchaku: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Piercing 1, Stun
Rope Dart: Reach 3, Damage 3, Size 2H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Entangling, Fearsome1, Piercing 1.
Sai: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 0, Cost 5, Parry, Paired (reduces the Momentum cost of a Disarm by 1), allows a re-roll of a single d20 on a parry test that fails to report a success, but the results of the second roll must be kept.
Shuriken: Reach C, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Hidden 1, Volley.
Three section staff: 2 Clubs (1 club each hand) with the Linked Quality.
Tonfa: Reach 1, Damage 3, Size 1H, Encumbrance 1, Cost 5, Parry, Paired, Stun.

18

Sorry, forgot to check back on the forums. It’ really interesting to play around with the more exotic weapons, as well as being taught how they are properly used. Esp with multiple attackers using such things as kyoketsu against a single swordsman.

Those stats look fun, I’d probably make a choice between (assuming the PCs had the choice by the weaponsmith) the kyoketsu and the kusari-gama (being loose with the name) either having a longer cord and thus grapping but not a disarm ability, and having a chain and thus having a shorter range, but being able to entangle and disarm cutting weapons (without the cord being cut, hence the chain) and disarm them (maybe a contested brawn roll, or Agility vs Brawn).

Plus I’d reduce the shuriken damage but give them effects, for example Stun as they are more for distractions when thrown. But conversely I’d give them Vicious 2, with 1 die damage (thrown, as well, esp with the effects) when used as a melee weapon. Again, traditionally they’d be used in-hand to rip and tear at flesh, esp the face, to create an escape opportunity.

And the kunai is basically a cast-iron trowel, and so not really suitable for throwing. It was used to strike into the hands or forearms of a swordsperson to break the small bones or attack the arms to make them drop their weapon, or to strike the head to stun them, so maybe a disarm bonus or stun effect is more approriate for it (even an MDF made one can give you a good crack on the hands or wrist, as I know well)

And I do like the Human Shield option - that seems quite Conan-esque

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