Bonus Damage (DOOM) Limitations

Im probably missing something here but its been mentioned in a couple other threads but I thought I would address it directly now. The rules allow for Doom to be added to the GMs pool by the players or spent by the GM in order to increase the damage dice used in a successful attack. I cant seem to find a limit to this expenditure either way. When increasing the dice in an attack, or actually a skill check of whatever kind, the hard 5 DICE rule limits the addition by momentum or Doom but for damage (falling under the Improve Quality of Success option which specifically states is Repeatable in the case of Damage) It would appear a player could add whatever number of doom he wanted to ensure a massive damage result. (Ill add +10 Doom for 10 more dice)

Im sure this cant be right, the GM could do the same thing of course to the instant death of any PC hit in combat. Yes, I know it would be a ■■■■ move but cmon, players will be players. Am I missing a limitation somewhere?

According to page 102 of the core book Immediate Momentum spends can be paid for in Doom. It says nothing on non-immediate spends like bonus damage. That’s I read it.

And BTW, one Momentum (or Doom if GM) adds one point of damage, not one damage die.

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Ah, I see one mistake I made. Momentum and Doom spends to bolster damage increase the damage points inflicted, not the dice rolled. My mistake… however Im still trying to find a limitation. Its clearly a repeatable expenditure, but not sure what the term "Often Repeatable’ suggests.

Yes, spotted that right before you posted. Thanks!

If it’s only immediate momentum spends that can be paid for in doom, then that means players cannot spend doom on bonus damage because that’s not an immediate spend. That would mean the limit for bonus damage for players would be the max six momentum that can be in the shared pool (besides any momentum they generated on the attack roll).

Hmm, I guess I’m confused on what an immediate is. Damage bonuses are referred to as often repeatable not immediate repeatable. Can someone explain the difference?

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And if that’s the case then the GM cant use Doom at all for damage, right?

Page 102 of the core book explains Immediate. If you look at the momentum charts you will see some spends have an “I” for a cost. Buying dice for a roll and create obstacle are examples of Immediate spends.

The GM can use doom for damage bonus because the baddies use doom like momentum. Baddies momentum is called doom.

Ok Stokar but then the question remains, can the GM spend huge amounts of doom for damage without kimit?

Technically the gm can use as much as they want. Me personally I would rather use doom for other uses. Using a large amount to do alot of damage can make unhappy players.

I use a house rule that the players and gm can only use momentum/doom they generated on a their roll to improve the roll. That keeps both from using large amounts of momentum/doom.

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That sounds like a must have rule, or perhaps allowing a max of 3 or something from each pool.

This could certainly be explained better in the rules. There are a few issues like this. For example the very first mention of spending momentum explains that you never have to declare it before hand but can wait for a result before you commit momentum. Then, it distinctly reads a couple pages later that one must declare all momentum spends for extra dice before rolling.

My guess is that those are exceptions, special instances.

HtH

I am using the Doom pool for extra effects and to increase the damage I use the generated momentum from the NPC’s roll. This does not infuriate the players.

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Yes you can spend doom on adding more damage AKA 1 per doom spend.
Yes you CAN use it to blow all your doom in one go.
Yes you can do that if you think it is appropriate to the situation.

However

Two things to note: Although you can drop someone down to zero health, note that they can only take two wounds from that action - one being from taking 5 points of damage, and one from running out of health.

Secondly, there isn’t a limit so it is up to the GM to decide how much they want to spend, but they are also not forced to spend doom on those. Hard rules have been lifted off that to give GMs room for interpetation when it comes to that. I should hope that if the GM suddenly decides to spend 12 doom on a single damage roll to ensure you go down hard, he has a solid reason for it.

That aside, I would rule that if you are going to put a rulling on it, state it that they can only spend extra doom on damage until the opponent takes 1 wound from their actions. That way you are limiting them to around 5-7 doom depending on armour.

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Im a very narrative driven GM and player but this kind of perplexes me. Even with the house rule mentioned here, limiting DOOM payment to causing a single Wound…I cant imagine a player Ive known in 45+ years of gaming that wouldnt give the GM a boatload of Doom to insure every NPC he hits died. I mean, the threat of Doom just doesnt seem that real.

The poison rules for example… for 2 Doom you can avoid the Persistent damage effect (poison). What player in his right mind is going to accept that damage when it can be avoided for 2 lousy Doom or however many Effects were rolled?

I love this game and am intrigued by the momentum/doom mechanic but some of this just seems off.

It does become real when the gm can spend doom to make skill checks much more difficult, make the baddies skill checks easier. The gm can buy extra d20s for baddie skill checks. If the gm has a lot of doom he/she can do these things alot. The gm can save the doom for a huge encounter. So a gm can make the players suffer if he has lots of doom.

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So theres a player out there that would risk his character dying from poison rather than give the GM a couple doom? I mean once accepted the poison can continue on it’s own out of control by rolling effects.

I know doom can be rough but I just done see players sacrificing immediate satisfaction for what the gm might maybe do in the future.

Giving doom to the gm to avoid conditions especially if they can be fatal is not much of a condition. A player shouldn’t be getting poisoned constantly either. One of the biggest culprit for doom to the gm is buying extra d20s all the time. There is a difference between giving doom to survive and giving doom to constanty improve the rolls.