Whats the max a GM can spend of his Doom pool when increasing an NPC’s damage using the Improve Qualilty of Success option?
I know the max on d20s but is there a max on d6s you can add to damage?
Away from the books, but Id hazard until you run out of Doom.
That can’t be right. A large pool of doom is not unusual. Its certain death if the GM throws 8 or 10 or more into damage and I’ve seen pools of 20+ regularly.
That would be a GM problem rather than a game problem.
No set of rules can 100% preclude idiots, but you are totally correct that Doom can be abused.
But then pretty much everything can be if the GM is a dork.
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Rgrove, there is no limit on how much Doom you can spend. You do need to pay attention to whether a particular spend is repeatable or not.
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I was referring specifically to damage increases. Does the same apply to players as well? Could a player commit all 5 momentum for 5 extra damage dice or give 10 doom for +10 damage dice? Surely not?
Sure why not? Although players can’t add Doom to add damage dice. However, oftentimes it is not that beneficial to deal ridiculous amounts of damage. Players should aim to deal 5 (resulting) damage, thus causing a Harm. Any more damage does not have such a huge impact, unless you manage to reduce Stress to 0 of course.
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Two things:
- Bonus damage on an attack is flat +1 damage per Momentum spent, not extra dice. You’re welcome to houserule it otherwise, as it doesn’t much change the average damage, but it is a qualitative difference as dice allow effects to occur more often. It’s a matter of preference, but I figure it’s useful to state the rules-as-written here for clarity.
- There’s no cap on how often you can do it, even for the GM who may have a massive Doom pool to draw on… but there are diminishing returns, and it’s often not worth it to just buy lots of damage.
To explain my second point, imagine an NPC has hit you and inflicted 4 damage (after Soak). You had 16 Vigor, so now you’ve got 12 left. The GM has 12 Doom available. If the GM spends 1 Doom, that pushes the damage to 5, and now you’re Wounded (5+ damage in 1 hit; remember, it’s 5+ for 1 Wound, not 1 Wound per 5 damage). But to cause a second Wound, the GM has to spend the remaining 11 Doom (to reduce you to 0 Vigour). If the GM had more Doom, that’s still all the damage that can be done - spending more doesn’t have any practical effect on the fight.
More efficient to, say, spend 1 Doom for the Wound, then spend 2 more for Swift Action and make another attack. And that’s if the GM doesn’t have other things they want to spend Doom on later - maybe they’re saving up for a nasty plot twist later…
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Shran - I dont see where players cant use Doom to add damage? It substitutes for Momentum in every way, does it not?
Nathan, you are right of course about damage bonuses being per point not dice. My mistake early on but I self corrected… eventually! Still the issue with players adding as much Doom as they like to ensure that 5th damage point to kill an NPC seems problematic.
As others have said, players cannot add to Doom to buy damage.
The two cannot be used interchangeably by players except with Momentum Spends which are listed as Immediate (core rulebook, page 102; the main examples of this are buying additional d20s for a test, or increasing the difficulty of an enemy test). Buying additional damage does not have that keyword, thus you may only buy extra damage as part of a successful skill test, and you cannot pay the cost (in part or in full) with Doom rather than Momentum.
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Wow, I’ve read through the rules several times and that’s as clear as mud. So only the Immediate Spends can be substituted with Doom, which would disqualify Obtain Info, Improve Quality, Increase Scope, Reduce Time etc. Right?
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That does fix the problem on the Player side. Although the GM can boost damage with his own Doom restricted only by the size of the pool and his own judgement.
As it was pointed out Spending 100 points of doom increased the damage by 100, which is only going to cause 2 wounds(3 with Intense quality), yes a GM could do it, bit there is no point.
Wound 1 - 5+ Damage in a hit
Wound 2 - Reduce Vigor to 0
This is not a game that is pitting the GM vs the Players. That is not what DOOM is. The players largely control the size of the DOOM pool.
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Agree- the GM COULD do the extra damage- but if that were the case- they have forgotten the fundamental aim of the game-
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you (as GM) guide the PCs through an epic and engaging story in which the PCs are the heroes
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you all have fun (if the only way you can have fun is to severely damage or kill one of your players- your doing it wrong- go back to playing diablo)
I agree Cranky but the way Doom is described in the rules it is a balancing factor between player character prowess and the nasty world around them. By design when they use it to their advantage it should hurt right back. If the GM elects to take it easy on them, holding back the true potential of Doom in favor of a story of PC heroics and continual success, then Doom DOES become just another resource. I see that its a balancing act for the GM and as a narrative-minded gamer I appreciate the GM learning towards drama and excitement v.s. defeating the players but if Doom doesnt really present the balance its supposed to, its kind of pointless.
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Good point ogedei, its a minor thing but has a big impact… the fact that any amount of damage over 5 is kind of wasted until it consumes all the Vigor.
The GM will learn how to better use the DOOM to keep that balance and have it as a fun narrative part of the game as they play. Unless they have used it before I think it will be a different idea for them that will take time.
My idea is supported by the number of people who read the rules, never played, and wrote it off as a mechanic that sets players vs GMs.
All of the things in this game: momentum, doom, complications are prompts to get the mind moving and be more narrative. I played Genesys this year and it has much of the same, it was awesome.
I wrote an article on the narrative potential of momentum: http://www.starshipsandsteel.com/2019/01/conan-2d20-narrative-combat-spends.html
And set up a deck of cards to help with making complications more interesting in combat: https://www.starshipsandsteel.com/2018/11/dealing-with-complications-in-conan-2d20.html
And as well a set of momentum spends for newer players:
Hope you find it helpful or interesting at least!
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Hellos
I agree withcha, Genesys n 2d20 are pretty similar… both being made by the same guy I believe. They both try to implement the same style of play in different ways.
Thanks for the cards!
An easy problem to solve. Just don’t give the GM lots of Doom to throw at you.
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