Battle cry and push back

  1. After an successful BC (part of charge action) can we CC with an additional token or push back a target, or we can do both CC and then PB?

  2. Both attacker and defender fail the Opposed Skill Test. What happens then? Rules say that “the highest successful result wins”. Page 10 says that “the winning roll must be a success” even if all fail their rolls. How to understand that? Say we have two x for example.

  3. When the AI executes a push back (provided it has an ability)? Can use CC and then PB like in question 1?

  1. The rulebook says to resolve the melee attack first, then the target is pushed back (if it survives the attack). After the target is pushed back, you can follow through or stop.
  2. If the attacker fails the Battle Cry roll, there is no Battle Cry to resist.
  3. Just like question 1, the Melee attack is resolved before the push back.

Pushing back is part of BC (so is part of the Charge action, when the Attacker wins the BC roll). The Attacker is not obligated to push back models or follow them if he pushes back a model.
When the Attacker Charges, he earns a Green or Black token, and afterwards can use BC.
When the Attacker fails the roll, the Defender still rolls the Skill die, because if Defender wins, the Attacker does not get any tokens (so he loses 1 wich was earned at first when charged, before de BC roll, and he could react). If both rolls are failed, it does not happen anything (so the Attacker would still have 1 token).
After resolving all this, you can perform a CC action.

Thank you guys. Understand how BC skill test works now finally. But would like point something out after reading dark`s post. So a sequence is:

  1. Successful BC for attacker
  2. Now push back that has to be followed in order to have a base to base contact to perform CC
  3. Resolving CC with two tokens.

So got 2 questions now:

  1. Whats a practical reason for a push back?
  2. AI is supposed to follow only if reckless so if they’re not they just push back and dont CC as they have no base to base contact for CC? So they dont attack, right?

Also you mentioned that attacker who fails dont get any tokens. Could you refer to a certain rule? I found only that when fails, charger “gains no benefits” (p 36 RoP). Benefits mentioned a few lines above are: charge is not a trigger, extra charge bonus marker and push back.

I said if Defender wins the roll (higher success). The rule I use is that one, because BC is part of the Charge action, so I would say the Attacker would not earn any tokens (the Attacker does not get any benefits in that Charge action wich was performed with BC, and the Defender could Move without taking the usual free attack).
The reasons depend of the models and situations (push back from some area or marker wich is needed to get any objective, maybe you don’t want to follow because the same reason… maybe you want to move your model instead of CC, so you don’t get a free attack, and your target is now engaged with a better model (or prefer to attack with It instead)…
The AI does not need to be reckless to follow the target (notice it needs to be reckless when D or O, because the careful model prefers to do the objective instead of attack…) P.15 campaign handbook.
There are some situations too where you can attack with melee weapons at Orange, and you can do damage when pushing back into the edge

Regarding Ai - campaign book p 11 - notes for close combat method : “Always use BC, if able (remembering to push back only if reckless)”
Also would like to ask one of devs to clarify if a charger who loses BC, loses 2 charge tokens or just one (one granted for winning BC test)

Specific push back rules say when A response and CC Method, always follow, when A comes from D or O responses, just if the model is reckless.
But yes, it would be fine to see all this clarified.

Hey all. A lot of questions here. Let’s take it from the top.

  • What happens first - the damage from an attack or Push Back?
    Attack damage is resolved prior to Push Back. Rules of Play covers this in the ‘Push Back’ box on page 36.

  • What happens if both models fail the Battle Cry test?
    If both models fail in the Opposed Test, nothing happens regarding Battle Cry. The winning roll must be a success means that in an Opposed Test, you need to both score better than the other model whilst also succeeding in against your attribute.

  • How would an AI model use Push Back?
    They would also be effected by the rules on page 36. They would resolve the attack damage and then the Push Back like any other model.

  • Can I Battle Cry, Push Back via Battle Cry and then make a Close Combat attack?
    Providing that you have enough Actions spare, yes. Keep in mind that Battle Cry is part of a Charge, so you would need to resolve the Charge in full (including the Battle Cry in full) and then with a second Action, perform a Close Combat Attack.

  • A Careful AI model Pushes Back an enemy, but they cannot follow up. Does this mean that they cannot attack using a weapon that requires base-to-base contact on that enemy model afterwards?
    Yes.

  • What does ‘gains no benefits’ mean when a charging model fails a Battle Cry Test?
    It means that the action counts as a Trigger, the charging model does not gain any Charge Bonus Markers and they cannot perform a Push Back.

  • How does losing Battle Cry affect the application of Charge Bonus Markers? Would a model losing the Battle Cry test lose both Charge Bonus Markers?
    The additional token is only awarded if they succeed in a Battle Cry test. If a model fails in a Battle Cry test, they would have no opportunity to gain the secondary Marker. It isn’t so much that they ‘lose’ anything, they just do not gain access to it in the first. A charging model can either apply a single Charge Bonus Marker or go for Battle Cry, potentially gaining both Markers. This means that Battle Cry can only ever award two Markers, not just one as suggested by Bootboy.

Thanks!

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But that depends of the Response, not in all cases, right? P.15 Campaign handbook.
If the Careful model got A Response and CC Method, it follows (if A does not become O or D).
It needs to be Reckless just when the Response is O or D (or A when becomes O/D)

But if we look at the Summary Table on p.10, it says that Careful models do not follow up. Page 15 does not make any reference to Careful models, so I would presume that the table trumps the information on page 15?

But step 3 says if the Response is O or D, the model will follow up only if it is Reckless, so I would presume a Careful model with A Response would follow up.
There are contradictory rules here, maybe there is some errata (maybe a missing word in push back rules). Push back appears in the column “Actions” (table p.10), but It is Charge actually :sweat_smile:.
You could understand different things when you read the table, or the example, or the specific rule about pushing back with AI models…
P.15 says following up depends of the circunstances, and after reading step 1…
So, do Careful models always push back but never follow up?? In any circunstance.

Hey,

Point 3 on page 15 under Battle Cry uses ‘only’ to reinforce that follow ups cannot occur unless the Attitude was Reckless. The Careful attitude is not relevant here because it is not the Reckless Attitude.

In my mind, there isn’t any missing information regarding how the two attitudes interact with Push Back relating to your point when considered alongside those two pages.

Careful models would Push Back but not follow up.

Thanks!

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