Star Fleet Universe

Star Trek Adventures
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too bad it’s wrong. Much of the information below can be found in Task Force Games’ Nexus magzine; the rest is from designers’ notes in the various SFU products

The rights holders to Star Trek were Desilu Studios.

They licensed the Tech Manual to Franz Joseph Schnaubelt, DBA Frans Joseph Designs (FJD), in about 1972. License at the time didn’t disallow sublicenses (neither the FJD license nor California law, under which it was executed.)

Stephen V Cole (SVC) wrote what would grow to SFB in a simulations class in college. Everyone else seemed going for the computer, so he, an avid wargamer, wrote a game instead… and his classmates got hooked.

SVC wrote several games for Task Force Games. He dusted off the simulation he had written, expanded it out (ISTR late 1976), secured a license from FJD, and it was published in 1979. He found it based upon the Gamescience License for Star Fleet Battle Manual, which was essentially a licensed version of the unlicensed Star Trek Battle Manual of about 1975… and had been C&D’d by Desilu for use of Trademark without license. (Source - an interview with Lou Zocchi I read in the late 90’s; proof that licensing was not being ignored)

The early 1979 Pocket Edition had the Fed DN, CA, CL, DD, SC, Klingon D6/D7, Romulan Warbird, War Eagle, and KR (Romulan D6); Kzinti CS and CL, and the Base Station (K7 type)

It’s important to note: SVC got his license about the time Paramount bought Desilu. Paramount didn’t deep dive when the money kept at or above minimum expectations. They wouldn’t take notice until ST:TNG, tho’… because their own licensee, FASA, exceeded the license for STRPG. It’s also worth noting that FASA was clear that they were not licensed to use FJD material (nor SFB material) … hence their versions of the SFTM ships use different strut configurations.

Also, around this time, SVC, doing business as Amarillo Design Bureau, was expanding the timeline later… and larger ships with bigger crews, and much better systems, were in print and playtest. (Commander’s Edition included X-ships - higher tech ships - the Fed XCA is a good stand-in for the Excelsior. The X2CC is released roughly the same time as TNG starts… and is clearly similarly capable.

Paramount goes off on ALL the licensees. Meanwhile, TFG is going under, and the properties it holds sold off; SVC gets back SFB; Starfire, his other space combat game, gets spawned off to Marvin Lamb, DBA Starfire Design Studio. SVC prevails in court, and the settlement is a direct and non-time-limited license to only TOS/TAS.

Paramount won against FASA, establishing that STTNG is a separate IP from TOS and from TAS.

It’s important to note that SVC has ALWAYS been careful to avoid exceeding his cash-cow license. It definitely looks like Paramount was aware of SFB, tho’… the ships in ST II: TWOK are functionally almost identical to the older SFB NCL and CC. designs from 1980-81, and the STIII: TSFS Klingon BoP is functionally the 1981-82 era G2 Police Ship, the Grissom is a clear GSC parallel.

Further, the battles in ST III can be replicated in SFB rules, as an article in Nexus shows…

The ST II battle, it also can be done with SFB rules. The 3D vs 2D is a legendary captain bluff.

The thing is, the SFU was developed specifically to facilitate wargames… the feds are less passive (still not shoot first, but also not pacifists). Numbers of ships are kept lower to facilitate being able to play out the war in F&E.

It’s comparable to the Kelvin Timeline - close enough to be recognizable, but clearly not the same universe.

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Not sure what was wrong. My summary certainly wasn’t as detailed. Not sure it needed to be but I appreciate the additional info. Thanks.

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Wrong? It was a summary as in short and relevant to the discussion.

On the legalities, since none of us are principals, as in ADB or Paramount, we really do not know specifics and anything we say is conjecture. They are also completely pointless to this discussion since they are not relevant to playing the game or using it as a setting for STA.

As for SFB, SFU and STA, the summary hit the relevant points.

A short summary yes. But no reason to go all 900 pound gorilla.

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The assertion that licensing for Trek was ignored is dead wrong - no one at paramount thought it was dead; they were, in fact, relaunching the franchise in '77, and in '79, TWOK was being written. That SFB was licensed via FJD (rather than Paramount) is vital to understanding the reasons for the differences. Likewise, Paramount was officially unaware of the ADB sublicense until they tried to shutter TFG and ADB in court… once the judge ruled the sublicense valid, in '88 or '89, only then was it licensed by Paramount, who settled quickly.

Further, it’s hardly conjecture - SVC documented the court case in Nexus magazine - in fact, the lawsuit made Nexus 18 considerably late, as well as delaying other products.

The early history of the SFB game was published by ADB in multiple forms, all of which agree.

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It was a simplified explanation because it wasn’t pertinent to the question in the context of this discussion, considering that context is playing SFA in the SFU. ADB was cited to as the source of more information if anyone wanted it. It’s fine, though. Your knowledge was appreciated. I hope you might be as insightful about the thread’s topic, too.

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goodness gracious, can’t this topic ever get brought up without people arguing over the nitty gritty?

At this point, I think its just easy enough to say that the star fleet universe is an alternative timeline/universe that “started” whenever the heck it did in the 70’s-80’s , its based off of TOS and what ship designs of a similar type might have looked like without worrying about making “flashy new” art for a new era like was done in movies and TNG and more movies.

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I confess to not doing an exhaustive search but I was looking for more info on the topic before I started the thread. Were there threads on the topic or was it just mentioned here and there? I’m really curious about how others, who might be doing it, are handling it.

It doesn’t seem like a tremendously big deal unless you want to get into the nitty grittty… and I don’t really. I like the backdrop of the setting, particularly the long-reach of the political scene where the events all have ripples that can extend out across what would be the Alpha and Beta quadrants.

Speaking of which, I’m using the Alpha and Beta Quadrant mapping of canon. SFU uses Octants and Sectors. I’m not using Octants and, where Quadrants are mapped by the galaxy’s meridian and equator, Sectors are politically defined. There’s one little difference bit of reconciling I’m planning.

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I confess to not doing an exhaustive search but I was looking for more info on the topic before I started the thread. Were there threads on the topic or was it just mentioned here and there? I’m really curious about how others, who might be doing it, are handling it.

It doesn’t seem like a tremendously big deal unless you want to get into the nitty grittty… and I don’t really. I like the backdrop of the setting, particularly the long-reach of the political scene where the events all have ripples that can extend out across what would be the Alpha and Beta quadrants.

Speaking of which, I’m using the Alpha and Beta Quadrant mapping of canon. SFU uses Octants and Sectors. I’m not using Octants and, where Quadrants are mapped by the galaxy’s meridian and equator, Sectors are politically defined. There’s one little difference bit of reconciling I’m planning.

It hasn’t come up in this forum before. But it seems like whenever SFU gets braught up in a trek forum or some space with trek fans, arguing about details becomes a thing that happens.

I just think its an interesting setting, or even offers nice things to mix into the ‘normal’ trek setting.

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I kinda get it. The SFU is grounded in wargaming and wargamers are particular about information being accurate and complete. I can imagine that mentioning the SFU to them puts them right in that mode.

I agree. It allows for more canon-style exploring, too. Even within claimed territory, only a small fraction of the galaxy is explored.

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I have to say @JohnDW is right - viewed as an alternate timeline (which can be prime for the game in question), it does make a practical setting!

One wonders what happened if mainstream characters crossed into it mirror-universe style and found a galaxy full of constant low-level warfare.

Would they want to interfere?
Would SFU characters try to recruit them or try to acquire their advanced technology to aid their side in the wars? (Heaven help them if they find the Kelvin universe!)
What are the players’ counterparts like?

A potential alternative to the de rigeur mirror crossover campaigns, possibly?

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It’s not a bad way to go, but the issue of how to make them really aware is a bit of an issue…

… because it’s either going to be a “smash in the face” or a “too subtle to notice at first”… if using both as their canon

Coming from the TOS era (2260’s) into the 5 year mission era (Y155-Y160, ±5), the big difference is the maps - who is where.

15 years later (late OS Movies), it’s going to be quite obvious, especially with the rise of Carriers… and lack of ridge-heads

There’s also the timeline issue…
The two timelines locate a variety of events differently.
SFU: The Vulcans aren’t far ahead of the Terrans tech-wise at first contact, The 5 Year Mission of TOS is about 50 years later in the timeline than in ST Canon, The romulan war is Federation vs Romulans (instead of Earth vs Romulans).

Also, some things seem stolen from the SFU… The Xindi look a lot like the ISC… but are encountered 200 year earlier, and are single homeworld, rather than 5 different ones…

Personally, I don’t mix them, because I get headaches trying to reconcile them. But the setting is great if you want a TOS/TAS with heavy warfare.

ADB has a bunch of player resources for Prime Directive that will be useful if one wants to use the SFU; when I opt for it, I’ll stick to PD1, because I prefer it for combat heavy action.

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Might be a combination of the two… at first, things are very familiar but they’d go sideways quickly and the subtle differences would suddenly make a lot more sense (and seem all that much more significant).

It could be interesting to go the other way, too. Once you have have players used to things being SFU-style, having them slip out of the General War into the canon universe post Khitomer Accords might be a strange twist, too…

I know the SFU doesn’t have ridge-headed Klingons, by its canon. I’m not sure which way I’d go on that while incorporating them into my own game, though. Regardless of their physical appearance, I’m sticking with the TOS/SFU-style as far as how they’re portrayed… particularly with how Kor describes them in ‘Errand of Mercy’.

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In re Klingons: I prefer the FASA answer to that of the Movies and TNG era… And to the SFU version.

And will note that Discovery contradicts Enterprise… Enterprise is “side effect of a vaccine”… Discovery is “reshaped and merged with a human to seem human”…
Fasa was “genetically modified to look human and hide the real Klingons”, plus a romulan fusion, and ridgeheads all the time.

If one is going to mix-n-match… FASA-Trek is another excellent Alternate Trek to borrow from.

And there are a dozen or two merged alternates in the fannon sphere…

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SFU: The Vulcans aren’t far ahead of the Terrans tech-wise at first contact,

I really don’t think “who was more advanced, vulcans or humans” was even touched until the First Contact movie? At least not that I remember. So if you really only did consider TOS and TAS as cannon of the time, SFU “diverging” in this way is just consistent with the cannon of the time.

And I kind of like it like that, it makes humans feel more like equal partners with the other races in TOS, where the “First Contact” view of humans meeting vulcans makes humans really feel like they don’t belong or they’re upstarts or in over their head.

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Ash Tyler isn’t a contradiction of the Enterprise Klingon deal, he’s more like Arne Darvin from “Trouble with Tribbles.” Each was “surgically altered” to appear Human.

The Discovery Klingon contradiction is more that every Klingon had an exaggerated version of the TNG makeup and none wore TOS makeup despite falling between Enterprise and TOS.

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I don’t think it was ever explicitly discussed, but it’s arguably implied by the Romulans having made an interstellar exodus from Vulcan centuries prior to TOS. When “Balance of Terror” was made, though, it wasn’t really clear yet how far in the future TOS was set, but once it was nailed down to the mid-2200s, the Vulcans almost had to have been more advanced than humans of a few centuries before that.

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I don’t think it was ever explicitly discussed, but it’s arguably implied by the Romulans having made an interstellar exodus from Vulcan centuries prior to TOS . When “Balance of Terror” was made, though, it wasn’t really clear yet how far in the future TOS was set, but once it was nailed down to the mid-2200s, the Vulcans almost had to have been more advanced than humans of a few centuries before that.

Given the fact that the war was faught without warp drives, or had sublight ships, at least according to the old cannon, if the vulcans did have a technological advantage it wouldn’t seem as big as “enterprise” turned it into.

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Agreed. It wasn’t even really clear that Vulcans were far advanced in First Contact, just that they hit interstellar space ahead of Earth. I kind of like the idea of Vulcans welcoming Humanity to space. I am less impressed with Enterprise’s jumping back in a century later and they’re actively hampering Humanity.

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The SFU has a little tweak for that. They differentiate tactical warp and non-tactical warp. A non-tactical warp capable ship can travel at warp speeds but can’t fight at trans-light speeds. Seeing as it would take centuries for that Romulan ship to cross the neutral zone at sublight speeds, their report about the state of the Federation’s war readiness would have been of little value! It works within the episode since they were busily fighting throughout so the Romulan ship may have been confined to impulse power. Had they been able to shake the Enterprise, they could have used their non-tactical warp drive to travel home. I know it’s not canon but it’s a little thing in the SFU that’s always impressed me. It makes so much sense, fits what we saw on the screen, and sets up their setting extremely well.

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While not technically canon, NTW is pretty much required to make sense of certain TOS episodes. There are four or so. I’m not searching right now… especially since Steve Cole’s essay on warp speeds cites them. It’s a major TNG retcon.

Also note that Elan of Troyus makes it explicit warp power is used in combat, and warps of at least warp factor 2 are used…