I don’t know if I clearly Got your question. But, your Ranged Attack Is D2, Melee Is D1. This doesn’t take into account any special event, defense, Truth generation etc. Difficulty might easily change, i.e.
Btw, opponents still use the same criteria. Remember that Truth creation and Truths themselves might alter the difficulty, so those numbers would likely change
This, obviously, enhances the momentum/caos mechanic, demonstrating the awesomeness of the 2d20 features and the great flexibility in narrative systems.
So if the melee difficulty is set for NPCs against PCs, do the PCs get to counter-attack if the NPCs fail a combat roll (and have the 2 momentum to spend)?
We are aware of the issues that worked their way into the game, and we are working to rectify them, but given, well, everything that’s happening in the world right now, that will take time.
In the meantime, to avoid confusion, please try to avoid providing commentary on the rules which might be misconstrued as official clarification - that’s not to say that you can’t talk about how you’d handle those issues, but try to make it clear that it’s personal opinion. The only official clarification will come from an account with Modiphius in the name.
Thank you for all of your hard work so far! I love the premise of this game and for now I’ll just homebrew some of the rules. When the official clarifications/revisions are completed, will there be a revised PDF, or will you post the clarifications on this forum, or both?
Fair replies to many of the issues. A few counterpoints and comments, though.
This is true. I agree this is probably narrating.
Could be, but turning a die result into a 1 with other 2d20 similarities to a Void Point is common. Despite this being a different game, it is still a 2d20 game. The rule should either be mentioned explicitly - as it’s used as an example - or omitted altogether. I agree it’s a fair use of a Void Point, but since the rule is already there in the sister games, this is confusing both for veteran 2d20 players, and for new players looking for the exampled rule.
I quite like how they’ve included Truths with some of the equipment. I believe any confusion is related to this being only vaguely hinted at in Chapter 6.
This should still probably be addressed in the appropriate section.
I would disagree that this is at all that clear. You would only ever roll a complication for the first time once, if a literal interpretation is used. This is why it needs clarification. I’m guessing it is in a scene, but could also be per roll.
It’s worded and placed in such a way that it’s possible. I agree that the effective valid options for Focuses are as you say, but it’s about clarity for the player. And in the 5/4 example, you potentially lost a point. In summary, though, you either get 5/5, 5/4, 5/3/2 or 4/4/2 for your Focuses. But 5/4 is an unnecessary option - you would either get 5/5 or 5/3/2 in that case.
But rifle bullets costs 5 Coins, which is the confusing factor. While a pistol in our world and many settings like this traditionally is a more expensive, status weapon, a bullet to it would not cost 6 times that of a rifle.
I believe, once again, the issue is the clarity and consistency of it all. Void Powers should either have a rule saying they doesn’t count towards that usage, or the normal usage should have a sentence about it not applying to Powers.
I believe it is more important to have clear rules, or examples of how to utilize the tools given, in a game that stands apart from other games in its line - such as this one. While I agree that this is no hack’n’slash game (or rather, you’ll get hacked and slashed in this game, alright…), it includes more than enough “standard” elements you would expect to also preferably be able to address some of the more common issues such as these. Guidelines would be nice for old and new players and GMs. How long does it take to remove an unpleasant Truth? (so to speak). Taking action to remove it is very arbitrary. I agree it’s a fine way of playing the game, and that’s probably the intended feel of it, but the design is balancing in the realm between what is considered “Traditional” RPGs and “Indie” RPGs and as such is probably well served with a few extra ideas and pointers to those players who are new to this type of games. Incidentially, in catering to video game fans (of whom not everyone can be expected to play roleplayinggames) for a franchised game, this is a pretty gutsy route. Video games, Dishonored not excluded, are very much defined in their rulesets, so it probably wasn’t a decision made without some consideration. I’m personally happy with the result, but the decision brings with it some issues, as demonstrated by the influx of questions.
Very likely.
While I agree that the game is similar, yet different, from the other 2d20 titles, I don’t believe the issues are related to expectations. Most things pointed out here are questions regarding things that even within context isn’t entirely clear, while another set of issues are probable errors like inconsistencies and typos. And, true, a few is also likely because you actually do have to think a bit differently from a lot of typical roleplayinggames (2d20 games included).
Remember, that even though a lot of these issues are resolved with minor interpretation or simply referring to either a general or the game’s own “rule 0” of being narrative, and driven by creativity and Momentum/Void Points spend (for instance), that doesn’t really make the issues clear. As I mentioned in one of my comments above, this approach to an RPG demands that players and GMs be taught the feel and mindset. That is no mean feat when you slab a (now) mainstream RPG system brand on a popular franchise. If each 2d20 game has a different feel, in addition to all being 2d20 games, you would kinda have to lead the players by the hand, so to speak. Issues about clarity is therefore pretty important, especially if you also take new players into account (who, admittedly, are not as colored by other games, but nevertheless needs guidance through the system, if for other reasons).
While there aren’t a lot of people, necessarily, flocking to the various forums with issues - there are still a lot of issues that have been addressed and put to light. Bear in mind that we are not that many days after the digital publishing, so what we are seeing here isn’t complaining as much as it is feedback and support. To me, even the most critical comments appear mostly positive, and the sort of constructive critique and commentary we are doing here is pretty much always positive to content creators of all kinds.
On that note:
Good to know, and as has been mentioned in the thread, as much was believed, but it is nice with a confirmation. I believe most people understand the added complications around the world currently. Just hope staff and writers all stay safe!
Few complaints concern the use of 2d20 and to assume others don’t get it or haven’t read it smacks of arrogance. The product is undeniably lackluster in many respects and Modiphius needs to be told so. There are rampant inconsistencies and errors; these are facts. If it wasn’t ready to be released it shouldn’t have been or it should’ve listed as a work in progress.
Maybe I’ve not been clear, but It Is obviously about personal rulings. You are the authority: I was Just trying to help using common sense, in the end we all make rulings since 1979
This doesn’t mean I want to trample your authority by any means. If you noticed, I even raised my shield since I clearly understand the Moment Is tough (One more reason to cooperate as a community). I have some editing/publishing background so I fully understand the issues you might be going through.
I am still unclear when a challenge is used in combat over a skill test. I am also unclear on if players always challenge a fight roll against them, or if they have to “pass” their turn order to react to an attack as their action.
For those who don´t already know this, Modiphius stated this previously:
-Please continue to send error reports to support@modiphius.com with the subject Dishonored Error Report and will issue updates as resources allow. We have some time before we go to print so if you do spot anything that was missed please let us know before the end of April.
So, let´s help them out to help us out, please give them your thoughts!
Remember to put in the subject and send your mail as soon as possible, it is probably a good thing!
According to the PDF a Melee attack is a Contest, a ranged attack is a standard Test. They also list the difficulty of a Melee attack for a test… I’d hazard that’s for when someone isn’t defending (like they don’t know you are there).
You can block a punch. Not so much with bullets i believe is the reasoning.
You definitely don’t need to use your action for a contest if you are the reactive one person. It would say that somewhere, but there is nothing like that at ALL in the rules. Resisting the attack isn’t an action.
Bigdrumsolo, if the conbat is ranged there is no contested roll, unless they are aware, but dodging bullets is impossible. So use the standard difficulty of 2 successes.
Melee knife and sword fights, are contested, with both sides rolling and the winner either scoring a cut on his enemy or defending an attack, maybe parrying the blow. That is why you have the option of spending momentum to counterstike the opponent if defending for 2 momentum.
Also this explains the secret bidding that goes on, with Gm’s and players, not revealing how much Momentum or Chaos is being spent to modify the roll.
The system’s designed to be a bit more flexible than that, actually (puts on designer hat).
Whether an attack is a contest or not is determined by whether or not the target has the ability to defend themselves from that attack. So, a melee attack against someone who is unaware or incapable of self-defence is a straight skill test, but a contest if the target is able to fight back.
This applies to ranged attacks too, but the circumstances of what counts as “able to defend themselves” differs. I’ll pre-empt the whole “dodging bullets is impossible” thing, at least partially because some people in Dishonored can dodge and parry bullets, but even normal people should have some semblance of defence against ranged attacks in the following cases:
Firing a pistol at very close range (in melee, something which does happen in the video games) gives the enemy the opportunity to knock the gun aside before the shot is fired.
Shooting at someone who’s aware of your attack and in or near cover might allow them to defend (they can avoid the attack by ducking into cover if they spot you aiming in time).
I hope it’s okay to join this thread, I just wanted to ask for some help in understanding complications.
In particular, a number of talents suggests “ignoring the first complication”. I’m not sure I understand! For example, there’s a talent Fighting Fit: “Whenever you attempt a Move test, you may ignore the first complication you would suffer.”
Does it mean the player ignores it in case of failure? Are there other instances? Or does the complication arise from anywhere else apart from a 20 being rolled?
On page 21, third paragraph, it is written that Focuses are rated from 2 to 5. This is supported on page 22, where any die that comes up “1” during a Test is a critical success, but a Focus can give a critical success with higher dies results, namely “2” through “5” (number 4 under Skill Tests). Page 61 also lists Focuses as being rated 2 through 5.
So I don’t understand how Focuses work in character creation. Each Archetype gives you 8 points to split between two Focuses. Since a character begins with 1 point in each Focus (again, page 61), wouldn’t that make both Focuses rating 5? 1+1+8=10, and no Focus can be higher than 5, so both must be rating 5. Or do you have to buy that 1st point of a focus with these points, even though you already possess it effectively? Wouldn’t it make more sense to give beginning characters 6 points to split between two Focuses?
Further down, players have the opportunity to gain another Focus at rating 2. Again, since all Focuses start at 2, this is an effective +1 bonus, up from 1 (rating 1 is “No Focus”, page 61). Or a player can add 2 to an existing Focus, or +1 to each Archetype Focus, both of which are net +2 bonuses, much better than the first option.
Taken together, this all seems to heavily imply that Focuses actually start at 1, not 2, and that the first point of a Focus (rating 1) provides no mechanical benefit.
Does this mean that when players buy a new Focus with xp, the first point has no mechanical benefit? That they must buy rank 1 even though they already possess it?
I’m also not sure how many Void Points a character starts with when they begin a new session and they have the Mark of the Outsider talent.
3 Void Points is the maximum you can have at one time, unless you spend xp to increase your maximum. That is clear.
On page 75, near the end of character creation under Putting it All Together, it is written that characters start with 1 Void Point to spend if they have any supernatural powers (second bullet point). But on page 28, under Gaining Void Points, it is stated that “Aside from from gaining 1 Void Point at the start of each session…” etc. So it looks like all characters gain 1 Void Point at the beginning of a session, not just characters with supernatural powers.
Above, one poster above suggested that this means that characters with supernatural powers begin with 2 Void points at the beginning of the first session, and while logical, this isn’t exactly what is printed. It doesn’t state that characters with supernatural powers gain an extra Void Point, just that 1 is available to spend. This seems redundant.
With how many Void points do characters with the Mark of the Outsider begin the game? How many do they have at the beginning of a new session?
You don’t have 8 points to spend, like you said that doesn’t math. The totals of the 2 focuses is going to be 8. So 4 and 4 or 3 and 5 or 5 and 3. Those are literally your only options there according to the math.
As for void points… It isn’t clear. I just go with it meaning you start with an extra void point at session one. It follows all the instructions.
