First: obtain information in not immidiate so only momentum from the (scan, look, read,…) Task can be used to obtain info? So no extra succes beyond the difficulty means no momentum, means no obtain info?
Second: How do you get around with players who are constantly asking questions on stuff that are reserved for the obtain info part but are unwilling to pay the momentum. They hypothise on things and look at me waiting for an awnser but those awnser should come way more in the future after the do more research/ advance in the story.
No. You get at least the most important, basic information associated with the task. A success versus a Difficulty is still a success. - Momentum is only generated on surplus successes.
So you should give the characters the core information on their success.
Obtain Information Momentum spend is for additional information.
If they don’t have the Momentum to spend - then they won’t get the information, unless the put some effort (that is, perform actions to gather information, research, etc.) into it.
I tell my players whether there is still some information to gain by the Obtain Information spend, or if there is nothing else to be found. That way, they don’t waste Momentum where there is nothing to gain, and on the other hand they know that their last action to gather information has brought forth all there is - for this approach. They might continue with different information gathering procedures.
It’s about how you give the information. Remember that a failed roll should never result in the story stopping cold. I tend to do the following.
Failure - basic, basic information necessary to move the story along. Sometimes as a result of success at cost. No option to Obtain Information using the current method.
Success - Enough information to act on, with evidence that there’s more to uncover via Obtain Information.
Immediate and the lack of doesn’t stop you using momentum from the momentum pool. So you have access to pooled momentum and any generated by the task/bonus momentum.
Immediate just lets you spend without need for a successful task, and lets you sub Momentum for Threat.
As for players who refuse to use the spend- it depends how strong you want to be with it. Going purely by RAW, I’d give them the basic info, and just keep poking that theres more if they make the spend. Or ask them if they’d like some further info for the cost, without having to ask the questions. I’d probably also include some ship talents that only really do anything when you use the spend, to encourage them to feel like they’re not missing out.
Alternatively, you could consider the degree of success - a load of excess successes could yield some additional information/hints. That does basically double up with them gaining momentum though, so will need you to keep an eye on whether it’s causing balance issues.
Smile sweetly, suggest that they could be right, pause for a brief period…then suggest they could be wrong. Then throw it out there that they could verify it…for a price.
If they’re running low on momentum, offer a Difficulty 0 task to give them a chance of generating it.
Also, I’d consider evaluating how you’re running the game. Why are they reluctant to spend momentum? Is it because they’re just right? Then be firm. On the other hand, are they feeling that momentum is too scarce, and they have to conserve it at every opportunity? Maybe consider loosening up on the opportunities to generate it. They shouldn’t feel like they might be killing the possibility of completing the mission if they spend it. That is a maybe - maybe you want to have the atmosphere that comes with momentum being very scarce. Regardless, that your players feel the need to push the boundaries is a hint that they feel uncomfortable. Maybe it’s them, maybe it’s you, maybe it’s desired, but I’d look into it and decide how, or maybe even if, I want to change things in response.
To refrase: they succeed at a TASK like scan but get no extra succes: they can still use the momentum from the pool to obtain info? But what if they have 6 and spend 3 and there is’nt any more info to obtain from that scan, you just say: that is it folks?
Well they do feel uncomfortable because they never played a RPG. And we are learning the rules. But it mostly is just one persoon who is doing this It feels like he is trying to get advanteges and an easy walk through the park. I wish I could give more examples but it is dificult to write them down (not native english)
We are playing the starter set and 1st play there was little momentum. second mission the was plenty of Momentum (every Diff 0 roll was 4+ momentum ) So I wouldn’t say they lack Momentum.
Yes, you can always use the pool momentum following a successful task. If there isn’t any more information, then i wouldn’t charge them for the spend, and just tell them that there isn’t anything for them to obtain- same as if their question is clarifying information you have already given them, but wasn’t clear enough.
As for the player wanting a free ride- just tell them that if they want more information, they can pay for it. It’s just part of how the game works, no matter how much they hypothesise, but the offer for the spend is there
Yes.
And they should get some information for the actual success at the task in the first place.
Momentum spend to Obtain Information is for extra information, beyond the basic success.
They can spend as many points of Momentum from the task roll or the Group Momentum pool, but if you as the GM only have 2 additional clues, then tell them, that this was all there is to know from this type of action.
Yep. That’s what the momentum is there for, to get them extra goodies. You don’t have to use momentum generated in that specific task.
GM’s call. If there is extra information that they could feasibly have gleaned from that task, then sure, if you want to. Otherwise, just say that they’ve gotten all the information that they possibly can (and don’t take the momentum for information you haven’t given).
Then it’s (probably) not you, so stand firm. Do what I suggested - tell them that it could be right, could not be, and that it will cost them momentum to find out. They’re still learning, they just have to be taught that some things they get for free, others are paid for with momentum/threat. Make a bit of a joke or a tease of it, but be firm so they know the boundaries and rules.
And that’s fine. I’m just throwing out possible explanations to help you think from different angles. Some times behaviour is brought to the table by the player, other times we unintentionally provoke it. If we’re thinking about it, it’s a lot easier to see the real source. They’re just learning the game and that’s absolutely fine.- just provide reminders that they have ways of investigating these things.
I think mattcapiche’s suggestion to ‘refund’ the momentum spent above what’s necessary to get all teh extra information there is to get is a good idea - it alleviates the fear of wastin momentum for zero gain.
No need to “refund” Momentum, just tell the players how many clues they will be able to get for the Obtain Momentum spend out of the current action.
No “overspending” and then “refunding” necessary.
Yes, I always take their question and then have them pay after. If their question isn’t valid, or is me needing to be more clear, then I give them the answer without the charge.
The idea of there being a set amount of clues is interesting. Obtain information lets the players ask questions, which sometimes leads to ideas I hadn’t even considered, but that still give useful answers. Its actually fairly rare that I have a predetermined set of extra clues for them to just buy wholesale. I know some of the adventures are written that way however
I most often run Infinity RPG, which is very much oriented to investigation and espionage. In this case I usually determine what a certain NPC could possibly know. That is the maximum number of clues that can be obtained by interacting with that NPC.
Other questions that are not really of much “weight” I answer for free, without the need for Momentum spends.
) So I wouldn’t say they lack Momentum.