Medals question

Maybe I’m misremembering, but I thought that the rulebook already states that your Reputation resets to 10 (or similar) upon a promotion…? I don’t have the rulebook to hand though to check.

It doesn’t. The promotion simply comes instead of an increase in reputation. But it seems the rational thing to do; I planned having this as a houserule, too.

I thought that was the case; I hadn’t found any reference, and it seems so intuitively logical that I was a little surprised not to see it.

Are you applying the same rules for demotions?

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Good question, and I admit I hadn’t thought of it. It seems to me that resetting to 10 after Reputation goes low enough to earn a demotion doesn’t really make sense in context, so as a first reaction, I think Reputation should stay at the level that triggered the demotion in the first place. I haven’t done any deep thinking on that, and I’m ready to revise if someone sees a glaring issue.

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Personally, I would rule it as a no. Demotions may occur when you drop below a rep of 10. A demotion in itself is pretty negative, and for anyone who can look up your ‘service record’ would see that you were demoted for whichever reason. Therefore, that may color their view of your performance, and you would in essence need to prove yourself again.

On the other hand, being demoted and not summarily discharged would indicate that Starfleet considers the officer’s career salvageable, and in the enlightened universe of Star Trek it seems reasonable that the overall view would be “lesson learned, punishment served”. If the former lieutenant commander cannot be trusted as a lieutenant, then he should have been demoted to a level at which he can be trusted!

In terms of game mechanics it makes sense for demotions/promotions to move the character to a position on the track where he does not immediately bounce back to his previous rank, or onwards to the next rank!

To be honest: I actually havn’t thought about it, yet. Having one of my players demoted was never a thing to think twice about. I think there are very good arguments for both approaches:

On the one hand, keeping the rep status low after a demotion would be logical, because the delinquent would have to prove theirselves again. Basically, what @SSiron said.

On the other hand, resetting to 10 would very much reflect your “lesson learned, punishment served”, liberal approach, @Citizen171. I like that very much, too (also, it’s very, very compatible to the law-system of the society I am part of).

So, my approach would be to look at the mechanics of things. I think, in STA, reputation has a tendency to get up. Players are essentially depicting “lawful good” heroes, so there are probably more chances for the rep to get up than there are, to get down.Also, I do not think that a demotion should hit a player/character purley because out of bad luck. In my humbly opinion, this is a change to character that has to be induced at least somehow by the player in charge. Otherwise, I would see the risk of interfering with the player’s character too much. At the same time, STA is a very “static” system, regarding character development. There are changes, but they take their time. In combination, I think, the problem of a reputation score too low would be easier to solve than a reputation score, too high. So, considering this, I would probably handle demotions differently from promotions, meaning that I would reset the reputation (or at least reduce it by several points; maybe in a progression [see below]) with promotions but would leave it untouched with demotions.

As to the progression: This idea just came to my mind and I am presenting it now, because I am not sure about it: Maybe it depends on the rank whether your reputation changes or not. For example:

  • Ensign → Lieutenant junior Grade: reputation does not change
  • Lieutenant junior grade → Lieutenant: reputation -1
  • Lieutenant → Lieutenant Commander: reputation -2
  • Lieutenant Commander → Commander: reputation -3
  • Commander → Captain: reputation -4

My idea was that this would reflect the idea of @Mr-Flibble that e.g.

What do you think?

Not per page 298. 298 lists it as

If a character’s Reputation would drop below 0, then the character faces disciplinary action.

And, no matter the reputation, losing rep is potentially worthy of a reprimand in file.

Continuing the quoth paragraph:

Prior to this point, issues of conduct and performance will be dealt with in minor ways, and a character losing Reputation may find a reprimand placed in their official record, or be given some unpleasant or menial additional duty, or lose some privilege normally afforded to the crew for a time, or even just a warning from their Commanding Officer. This should be handled through roleplay, and has no specific game effect other than the loss of Reputation it already represents.

A reset to 10 at promotion is NOT unreasonable - especially since the character is now facing a new set of expectations for the new rank and job responsibilities. Especially, as with Geordi LaForge, when taking over from someone else. JG LaForge becomes chief engineer as Lt. LaForge, when LtCdr Argyle leaves the ship. (we don’t see that explicitly, but it’s heavily implied in dialogue. )

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As a point of clarification, in the Army, you do not get the physical award/ribbon a second time. If you earn a second Army Achievement Medal, you don’t wear two medals, you wear the first medal with a Bronze Oak Leaf Cluster on it. Bronze Stars similarly get devices, as they are called, added to the original ribbon when you earn multiples of them. I assume a similar practice would be in place in Starfleet.

The medals in the Command book can only be taken once each, except where specifically noted otherwise (in which cases, the ability to take the medal multiple times comes directly from canon and is specifically addressed in the text).

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Yes, I was just specifying from personal experience as to how the comment of being wide eyed from someone walking around with multiples of one Medal was not realistic to the current military system.

I would suspect that in Starfleet, like the current military, when you do gain a Medal that is allowed by multiple purchases, you would still get a commendation and award ceremony as usual, but you would only be presented with the appropriate device to display on your first medal.

For example, on the below linked picture of a Military Ribbon Rack, worn on standard dress uniforms instead of full medals, you can see oak leaf clusters on the Army Achievement Medal and Army Commendation Award. There are also multiple Knots on the Good Conduct award, a Mobilization Device on their Armed Forces Reserve Medal, and a Bronze Star on the Iraq and Afghanistan Campaign Medals.

So, without having to wear multiples of each ribbon/medal, you can still have a readable and distinguished display of awards.

Actually, in Starfleet, I don’t think you would even get a physical medal or device. I do not recall anyone in dress uniform from TNG or later actually wearing any medals on their dress uniforms. Considering that Vulcans are a founding member of the Federation, I could see the ‘arguement’ that wearing the medals (for bragging rights) would be illogical. They would, however, still appear on your service record.

That’s a good point. I know they had those triangles in TOS.

Didn’t Sisko get a physical Chistopher Pike Medal of Honor in “Tears of the Prophets” though?

So, rather than wear them on their dress uniforms, they could display them on their desks or walls.

Data keeps his dozen or so medals/awards/commendations in a case in his quarters.

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Does anyone have any artwork, official or otherwise, for any of the Medals/Awards presented in the book?

I would love to be able to print them out as stickers or something to add to my player’s Character Sheets.

@Bluesamurai33 You should specify that you’re speaking US Army…
The US Navy uses stars on some (Navy awards; bronze on ribbons, gold on medals, silver=5), and leaves on a few (Joint service and DOD level awards: DDSM, DSSM, DMSM,JSCM, JSAM, JMUM). Bars on large are replaced by stars on small medals and ribbons. (USN Reg 5316) A few have other devices…

Several nations wear additional ribbons . I’ve seen photos of several USSR officers with two Order of Lenin. Wikipedia shows Podpolkovnik Anatoly Lebed in his awards… worn: 1 Hero of the RF, 1 Order of St George, 3 worn order of courage, 3 worn red stars, 1 Service to the Homeland, 1x20yr, 1x15 year, 1x10 yr

In TNG onward, we don’t see decorations on the dress uniforms anyway; they just go into the file, and into a shadow box for quarters display¹. (Neither TNG dress nor Insurrection dress show anything decoration-like.)

In TOS, however²… the triangular ones it looks like dups get worn. Commodores Stone and Mendez appear to have a dup each.

TOS Movies³, it’s much clearer… They appear to be placed in order earned, rather than rank of award, as several of the admirals have 2 matching lilac-ish ribbons, with one between them.⁴

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
¹: TNG: Measure of a Man - Data has his in a shadow-box… but note: 2 of them are TOS-Movie-era admiral’s insignia, 1 screenworn type, 1 appears to be a 3rd party, because it wasn’t on the cards sold in the it’s a wrap auction
²: see https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Starfleet_decorations and note the poor quality of the images leaves it arguable.
³: ibid. Resolution is better on these, too.
⁴: it’s likely that it was simply a costuming error… but so much of Trek capital-C “Canon” is fans overanalyzing rushed work by guys who probably didn’t believe they’d get caught.

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The Disco’s crew was awarded physical medals at the end of season 1.

As an aside, I’ve seen the TOS medal clusters described as “fruit salad”…

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FWIW traditionally, Orders - societies of chivalry evolving from knighthood - are different from Medals/Decorations. So while you may be awarded a medal multiple times, you may only be admitted to an Order once. However, it is sometimes possible to be promoted within the Order. So for instance, Canada’s Order of Military Merit consists of 3 levels, Members, Officers, and Commanders with the level tied to the member’s rank, as a measure of their responsibilities.

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It’s a common term in the US military, too.
(And scrambled eggs for the leaves on field/command grade and flag/general grade officers hat brims.)

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