I agree with darkspade, the way we rule it is the roll (including vicious, peircing, etc., but exluding resistances) is applied to random locations on the other targets, and the resistance from those new random locations gets applied as normal
In my opinion that should be read as only those qualities relevant to melee weapons (things like two-handed, concealed and maybe innacurate as a gun poorly balanced for aiming wil probably be poorly balanced for melee).
As an absolute minimum, iI’ expect you to expend ammuntion to benefit from the weapon’s ‘firing’ qualities - representing what’s basically shoving the gun into the target’s belly and pulling the trigger.
yeah, it makes little sense. Also if it was blast at melee range, you would be catching yourself and any other allies in your zone in the blast anyway, so less good than one might think. Though our super mutant has 11 armor between perks and armor, and another +2 to that against blast, so he’s pretty much mmune to his own missiles. I can’t see how that wouldn’t at least expend the ammo, but then it would do much less damage than normal, but would add the stun effect. I am certain this is not intended. It is crazy that RAW, this works and you cna blast at elast your own zone in melee without spending ammo and stun them, though RAI I am fairly certain should not. Hopefully a dev can clarify this.
“as gun” means simply means the gun bash has weight, cost and rarity of the gun being used. Qualities of the gun do not apply to bash.
You could not gun bash at long range as it is a melee attack thus only have a range of reach.
the devs have stated the only Damage Effect applied to targets (or locations) other than the initial hit is the Vicious effect. So if you have a weapon with burst and piercing the additional targets are not affected by piercing. Vicious is the exception as it counts as damage rolled in the attack.
Good to know. I have been applying pretty much everything but spread to all the targets, as someone getting hit by a few stray bullets would still be affected by things like those bullets armor piercing capabilities (piercing), but not by spread as not enough bullets would be hitting them to hit a bunch of different locations. Insteresting that vicious is the only one they decide to apply to all targets. I don’t really agree with this, especially since it means highly armored PCs have nothing to fear from bursts if they don’t include vicious. This also make vicious more powerful a weapon effect against armored targets than piercing, which seems wrong.
The “As gun” label is shown to go over the weight, cost, rarity, AND QUALITY columns. So are you saying this is a mistake and should only be across weight, cost and rarity?
Another head scratcher in the rulebook. Does headgear count as clothing? There are three distinct tables, clothing, headgear, and outfits. Outfits cannot be combined with armor but clothing can, and this is stated clearly at the beginning of the chapter. What is not mentioned at all is headgear. Is it clothing, is it outfit, is ti something entirely different? Can it be combined with Armor?
This is important and also leads to some weird interactions. For example, if it is not intended to count as clothing and thus cannot be combined with armor, one couldn’t wear the helmet from combat armor along with a gas mask, which is just obsurd, as soldiers have been wearing combat helmets and gas masks as early as world war 1. On the other hand, if headgear counts as clothing, it means you can also wear a formal hat and a combat helmet together, which makes zero sense. I don’t think you could make the helmet fit, especially not with a chin strap to keep it in place. Even if you could make the combat helmet fit over the hat, it would squish the rim down, possibly over your eyes or at the very least it would look very silly, which one would think would counteract the cha re-roll such a hat provides. What about a hard hat? I know pretty much any armor helmet will override the in game benefit of a hard hatt so noone would do this, but if headgear is clothing someone could theoretically do this, despite its lack of benefit, even though it makes zero sense.
My ruling will be that you can, at least wear a gas-mask under an armored helmet, and the rest is a case by case basis. I wish the rules were more clear on this. I love this game but man are the rules really unclear in many different places for a finished, published, product it is a little frustrating that things are not more fleshed out. I feel like the game needed mroe thorough palytesting before publication.
So, Vicious is the only one that applies because it affects the basic damage calculation - you make one damage roll, and then the effects are applied to however many targets/hit locations, etc. Vicious is part of the damage calculation, rather than something determined separately after the fact.
The others… it’s mechanically cleaner to make one decisive, easy-to-remember ruling (damage effects only apply to the initial target) rather than having to make small, individual rulings to each damage effect that will be harder for players to remember. It’s also the ruling that has the fewest potential unforeseen side-effects, so it’s the better choice overall simply because it produces fewer of the kinds of exploitable edge cases that cause problems down the line.
Vicious was already a more powerful weapon effect against armoured targets than Piercing X, because Vicious increases damage overall, while Piercing just increases effective damage only vs armoured targets, and only to a limited degree. Vicious is, functionally, always worth more than Piercing 1. But, at the same time, Vicious does not have multiple levels of effect (there’s no Vicious 2, Vicious 3, etc.; those have been tried in other games, and they break things too easily), while Piercing can scale higher.
Piercing is most effective on single-target, single hit, high-damage attacks. It’s less effective on weapons that spread their fire around across multiple locations and multiple targets. That seems reasonable to me.
The only qualities that should be conferred to a gun bash from the weapon’s normal ranged profile is Two Handed, and any others that represent the weapon’s physical structure (such as Concealed)
1 Like
I guess that makes sense, its just that vicious as you say, is powerful because it applys to everything, so piercing, being able to stack (even if just to pierce 2), makes it less good than vicious against non-armored but more against armored, its jsut if you then burst such a weapon, the vicious weapon becomes better against multiple armored targets than a burst piercing weapon, which just seems odd to me. That said, this ruling does make flamers less obnoxious, as applying persistent damage to multiple targets, although it makes sense, is jsut too powerful. Thank you for claifying this. I think I will implement the ruling. Also thank you on your quick response regarding “As gun”, this makes sense. Are you able to comment on headgear whether or not it counts as clothing for overlapping with armor?
Can you add mods and upgrades to dog or robot armor? Also can you combine different types of robot armor in the same location, i.e. plate and frame for example?
In the Equipment lists for the Super Mutant Skirmisher, it says (after Errata):
- Pipe rifle (pipe gun with long barrel and full stock mods), and 8 + 4CD rounds of .308 ammunition
However, the Pipe Gun is .38, not .308. But, the Pope Bolt-Action is a .308. So, should the Skirmisher be receiving a Long Pipe Bolt-Action Rifle (.308) instead of the Long Pipe Rifle (.38) or should the Skirmisher receive the 8+4CD rounds as .38 instead of .308?
Sadly they have stated that Robots may only have (standard or gutsy) plating plus one of the listed upgrades (factory armor, noxious plate, hydraulic frame etc)
They say the lower max DR is balanced by the robot traits. To be honest I would not want to fight a sentry bot with 7 DR.
I just bought the Winter of Atom quest book and one of my players wants to make a protectron, how would i figure out his hit locations?
1 Like
should be standard human hit locations
Maybe one extra on the head hit chances and on less on the torso to reflect their big head area - 1-3 head hit, 4-8 torso hit
1 Like
Hello!
I have one question.
Does DR bonus of Emergency Protocols affect only to torso, or to all locations?
(Power Armor MOD , Core rulebook p.144)
All locations, but the mod itself must be installed in the torso. The Kinetic Dynamo mod is a similar case, it’s in the torso but it gives it’s benfits anytime you take damage not matter which location.
1 Like
I used the following for creating magazine mods. The information is extrapolated fro the rest of the chart; all mods that require a creation perk are Uncommon, and with only the exception of the Short Night Vision Scope, all the Small Gun mods require the same perk to create and to install them. The Complexity, similarly, is extrapolated from other mods requiring the same perks.
| MOD | COM- PLEXITY |
CREATION REQ’S | RARITY |
|---|---|---|---|
| Large Magazine | 4 | Gun Nut 2 | Uncommon |
| Quick-Eject Mag | 3 | Gun Nut 1 | Uncommon |
| Large Quick-Eject Mag | 5 | Gun Nut 2 | Uncommon |
They’re on page 222. If you don’t have them, update your pdf to the February 2023 one.
1 Like