Can the Nebula select Talents based only on the base hull alone, or with the pod included? Consider a Nebula-class with the Multirole Explorer mission profile, It has a base Security of 2 and Science 2. If it has a Weapons pod, Security goes to 3. If it has a Sensor pod, Science goes to 3.
Could the above ship select Improved Shield Recharge (needing Security 3+) as additional Talents while mounting the Weapons pod or Advanced Research Facilities (needing Science 3+) while mounting a Sensor pod?
If the previous questions says it is allowed, what happens to that Talent when the ship changes pods and no longer meets the required Security/Science rating?
What happens if the pod is mounted on a ship where the vessel, because of mission profile, does not meet the Requirements of the pod-granted Talents? For example, a Technical Test-Bed with the Command & Control pod would not have the Command 3+ needed for Command Ship, a Scientific and Survey Operations with the Weapons pod would not have the Security 3+ needed for Fast Targeting Systems.
Note that there are only a few Talents I saw where this becomes an issue, as Command Ship comes with the Command and Control pod while Fast Targeting Systems comes with the Weapons pod. In both cases, if the pod is mounted, the ship qualifies with most mission profiles.
Those are some pretty good questions, in regards to no longer meeting the per-requisite.
I had to look it up. Numbers wise, you are correct, they don’t have the required discipline numbers. One way to rule that fact, as a GM, would be that the pods themselves have specialized technology within them to allow those talents even without meeting the prerequisites. Which may be one reason why you can not trade out a single talent given by the pod, but have to switch out the entire pod. (Or it could be a typo in the bonuses the pods give.) Another way around this would be only allowing certain mission profiles with certain pods (example: Command and Control pod can not take Technical Test Bed.)
As for meeting the prerequisites and then trading out the pod for a different one (if I was the GM) I would either have them also remove those talents and pick new ones, or simply ‘disable’ them. They would still have the talent, but would not get the benefits again until they met the prereqs.
The disabling the talent would fall into line with some effects that have to be dealt with occasionally in game. For example, one of the ship sensor talents loses the benefit if the system is damaged, until it is repaired.
I’m thinking I’m going to rule that the ship itself can only select Talents that it qualifies for without the pod. Talents in the pod can only be utilized if the ship qualifies for them with the pod.
IOW, a Multirole Nebula (base Security 2) with a Weapons pod has an effective Security 3, allowing it to use the Fast Targeting Systems from the pod. However, for selecting other Talents for the ship, it only meets the Requirements of Security 2 and could not select Improved Shield Recharge (which needs Security 3). If there was a pod that granted +1 Security and Improved Shield Recharge, then it could use the Talent with the pod attached. Other than selecting Talents, the ship acts with the pod-modified value (Security 3 for this example) in all cases.
I basically agree with your conclusion @HappyDaze, but you can also justify this further if you look at it similar to life path creation.
The ship was built initially without a mission pod, therefore any talents built into the ship would need to be achievable without the boost a pod gives you. You then add the pod later, bringing with it the additional talents and boosts.
I would also question why a multi-role explorer would have need (in universe, where resources are not unlimited) for a system such as the fast targeting system. That system is designed for a more combat orientated situation, and as such would be out of place on a general workhorse style ship. If they then gained it from a mission pod, that would come with the innate reasoning that the ship had been further prepped for a more combat orientated capacity.
You could extend this reasoning further when you consider the Scientific and Survey operations ship - when allocating resources, even in a wartime setting, I’m sure the fleet at large could find a more efficient use for the heavily science orientated ship than trying to use it as a tank. Either that, or it would undergo more substantial (milestone level) adjustments to make it capable of effectively filling that role.
At first I wasn’t sure I agreed with preventing them from taking a talent if they meet it with or without the pod, but after @mattcapiche’s post, I can see it, and I think I agree with that. Have the ship built by frame, profile, then talents, then toss the pod on there.
It is possible that the Science Division book will have examples of more pods, not just for the Nebula, but also the Luna, and New Orleans. Those two classes hint at the fact that they have a pod design similar to the Nebula and Runabouts. That is my hope, at least. There may also be more definitive rules and suggestions regarding this in that book, but since I don’t work for them… who knows.
Imo the pod talent is hardwired into the pod and so useable, even the stats are to low.
For additional talent I would grant access if ship+pod meet the requirements. But if you later change the pod, and not meet the requirements anymore, you can’t use the talent anymore.
Then there would be several options (with milestones!):
Increase the stats
Change the pod again
Change the talent
Edit: and for the point: it wouldn’t make much sense to fit a Weapon pod into a ship, which wouldn’t really need it:
Probably you wasn’t ever part of a gigantic bureaucratic organisation like the military?
In my experience there is no limitation of illogical decisions a gigantic bureaucratic organisation could make. And Imo even Starfleet wouldn’t be an exception for this!
#1 Yes #2 I think you could make an argument for either, but ultimately (unless Nathan makes an official ruling) it’s probably going to be a GM decision. Personally I feel like your ship should still have the technology equipped, even if it is made less effective by a “refit”. #3 If you have the command and control pod and the Technical Testbed mission profile, you still get the “Command Ship” talent despite having a command score of only 2. The same thing happens with the sovereign class + technical testbed and there are probably other comparable examples.
When using Saucer Separation, the two sections supposedly have the same Systems, Departments, Talents, and weapons (warp drives are listed as an exception). Does this include the System & Department modifiers and Talents that come with the pod? I ask because the pod is obviously attached only to the secondary hull.
Also, if the saucer section of the Nebula is supposedly the same as that of the Galaxy, then why is the Nebula’s saucer Scale 4 while the Galaxy’s saucer is Scale 5?
While I have not seen anything that specifically states this, it might be possible that any talent provided by the frame and/or pods (in the case of Nebulas and any future pods provided in supplements) ignore any prerequisite required by the talent itself. The prerequisites may only apply for mission profile talents and any talents chosen by players.
The rules as written don’t say that. From page 237: “Some classes may also provide Talents, denoting upgrades that are universally applied to ships of that class.”
2371 may have been when ablative armor started becoming common throughout the fleet, but the Akira class could’ve been the vessels that tried it out before becoming mainstream.
That is also true. It all ‘boils’ down to what the Gamemaster decides to rule as far as that goes. They can leave those things as standard features of those ships regardless of the year and pre-requisites, or they can alter the talents provided to something else or something close to it (like Improved Hull Integrity in place of Ablative Armor) until the ship or year meets the requirements.