Has anyone had any thoughts on changing the way the Voice works after Prophecy? The current rules are very good for communication tests obviously but seem to lack the punch that Valya has
Or is it that I’m misunderstanding the scope here; are we talking about - for example - a Bene Gesserit in a skirmish using Communicate as her attack (shouting stab yourself) and, if she gets enough successes the guy is Defeated (by stabbing himself?)
What is everyone’s thoughts
In page 56 of the Core Book it clearly states a Bene Gesserit can use the voice to convince another to hurt themselves or someone else.
In my game, the BG player can use it this way, but if she is facing complete strangers, she must first roll Empathy/Physical Empathy with the Hyperawareness Talent to use the Voice in combat
Not having seen Prophecy, but I’ve always considered it capable of that level of violence; Jessica in the ornithopter:
“Ah, shut your trap,” Czigo said. “Her hands’re tied.” He freed the knot and the binding dropped. His eyes glittered as he studied Jessica.Kinet put a hand on the pilot’s arm. “Look, Czigo, no need to…”Jessica twisted her neck, spat out the gag. She pitched her voice in low, intimate tones. “Gentlemen! No need to fight over me.” At the same time, she writhed sinuously for Kinet’s benefit.She saw them grow tense, knowing that in this instant they were convinced of the need to fight over her. Their disagreement required no other reason. In their minds, they were fighting over her.She held her face high in the instrument glow to be sure Kinet would read her lips, said: “You mustn’t disagree.” They drew farther apart, glanced warily at each other. “Is any woman worth fighting over?” she asked.By uttering the words, by being there, she made herself infinitely worth their fighting.”
It’s clear that Jessica is inciting violence in two of the three… the third is deaf. Czigo kills the deaf man and Scarface. Paul kills Czigo with a kick.
Causing a suicide is only a bit harder – but still doable, IMO – based upon Herbert’s novels alone.
here is how i would handle it/handle it in my campaign:
If a bene gesserit wants to use a “kill yourself” effect from the voice, well A she obviously has to use the voice (giving me threat in return)
than ill decide on the situation, the quick and dirty solution would be:
difficulty 5 (this is definitely at least “asking a dangerous favor from a stranger”, if succesfull, well, succesful.
But in the vast majority of situations that i can imagine for this id probably just handle this as close to the conflict rules as written, ie:
the victim rolls drive + discipline (apply self control focus or similar if actuable)
result is base difficulty of attack
base difficulty is modified up and down by traits of both characters involved.
player rolls, spending minimum of 1 threat to enable the voice
if player beats npc it depends on the status of the npc:
if minor character: instantly defeated
if major character: successes go to extended task based on discipline of target
then if defeat is reached the bene gesserit still needs to spend momentum or threat to actually kill.
If she is trying to make someone attack a friend, defeat makes them do that.
i might be inclined to spontaneously give every npc attacked with “kill yourself!” at least 1 trait “will to live!” for free, but it might also not be necessary as i can use the threat generated by the voice to instantly increase the chances of survival anyways
Requiring extensive rolls of the BG to do what we see them do in the novels? Bad form.
it’s just the communicate to create the desired traits that’s needed. The talent requires observing them, but the only roll it requires is the Communicate test to influence them.
At best, those rolls are opposed.
Adding extra rolls? Wheaton’s Admonition. (Don’t be a ____.)
I disagree completely.
if a character is important enough to deserve an extended task in knife combat or negotiation or any other conflict, they deserve an extended track in this scenario.
my players are always aware of this and its length in advance, so they can spend momentum and threat and stack traits and do their thing to get rid of them with one roll, and if it doesnt work with one roll, great, dramatic tension where the enemy struggles against the influence of the voice and tries to reach the witch before succumbing to her powers, thats FUN
Excess rolling is not “fun” - it’s simply a way to deprive them of the abilities the game design gives them.
Its literally just using the conflict rules from the core rulebook, if you consider them unfun or disagree with them you can do with your games as you please.
I personally prefer the dramatic potential of a conflict that lasts more than one second.
But it is RAW.
Those three foes are NOT major characters, there’s no conflict required.
Exactly. The whole point of the Voice is its immediate, dramatic power. Making someone spend multiple rolls to do something the Bene Gesserit clearly can do in the novels defeats the purpose of the ability.