Quick Hands Perk - Trying to understand it

As I understand, thematically speaking, Quick Hands lets you reload your guns faster.

Yet it doubles your Fire Rate, which actually favors weapons that already have a really high Fire Rate, like Gatling weapons.

Yet, guns with a Fire Rate of 0 receive no benefit from this perk at all, like the double barrel shotgun. I would think that a gun that requires you to manually reload it, after every shot, should benefit the most from a perk like Quick Hands, which is all about “reloading faster”.

In terms of Balance, I’m not as sure - though spending 2 AP for +12 dice on a Gatling weapon seems pretty hard to beat anyway.

Doubling the Fire Rate is a bad good idea imho, for the reasons you highlighted. If you search in this forum, you’ll find multiple examples of, let’s call it “OP” builds that exploit Quick Hands, Spread and Burst for crazy damages.

I think I’d make it +2 Fire Rate instead of doubling it.

1 Like

Yeah, I’m thinking about making it +2 Fire Rate, no AP required, passive works all the time, but you can’t use this perk to raise a weapon’s Fire Rate above 3. In this way I can compare it to something like Commando:

Commando only works on certain weapons. Quick Hands now also only really works on certain weapons (mainly Fire Rate 0 and 1 for full benefit).

Commando gives +1 die for 1 Rank. Quick Hands gives +2 dice for 1 Rank, but you have to spend extra ammo to get the benefit.

think Quick hands is meant to represent changing or topping off magazines before the shoot action. Fire Rate zero weapons would be better represented with a second shooting action.as a House Rule I would allow players (with Quick Hands and FR 0 weapon) to take a second shooting action at a cost of 1 AP. Might limit it to small guns and energy weapons to prevent firing two missiles at different targets.

That’s a cool idea, I like how it translates well fiction and mechanics.

How does it stack with the Trait (can’t remember the name) that already allows you to reduce second action for 1 AP, though? Does it make your first second action to shoot 0 AP?

I don’t see a perk that does that, may be one from a magazine though.

Personally I would not allow the second shot to be free even if it did take two perks to do so. Quick Hands with the house rule would be worth taking without stacking. It would also get a bit abusive if used on a 6 crank laser musket w/ full stock rifleman 2 and laser commander 2 perks (13 CD penetrating 3).

You may have been thinking of Action Boy that negates the second action difficulty increase.

It’s the Fast Shot trait Survivors can take. Reduces the cost of a 2nd action by 1 as long as that action is to make a ranged attack.

1 Like

There ya go, thanks @Grendel .

The other problem is that it slows down the turn as you have to roll 2 attacks. Might not bother most, but some might not like the slow down, especially because you can do it every turn.

I would have to say no free second attack.

It might be acceptable if you ruled that the second attack can not generate AP.

No 2nd action should be free, ever. That breaks so, so much.