Enterprise is Pochahontas, or maybe The Last Mohican…
Dear @Traveller, you are ranting and you are insulting and threatening others. This is not productive. So please calm down.
This is not the place for a canon discussion, but a place to discuss the small changes you make for your own STA campaign. The original poster calls it “fairly trivial breaks from canon” with emphasis on both fairly and trivial. So saying that you ignore xyz for your campaign is allowed, but saying that xyz is not canon, is NOT, because that would be a statement about canon and not about your STA campaign!
BTW IDIC means not only accepting the opinion of others but also accepting that the Star Trek canon is more than just the episodes you like but every single movie and every single episode produced in the last 55 years.
Back to topic:
Well, I do not know if saying that Captain Archer does not exist in your STA campaign counts. Years ago I created the background for my own Star trek campaign. Here the commanding officer of the USS Enterprise NCC-171, the Daedalus-class flagship of Starfleet during the Romulan War, was Commodore Timana Andrew Viceroy who rescued hundreds of prisoners of war from Romulan prisoner-of-war camps and at the same time smuggled the families of Romulan prisoners-of-war, who knew that they are not allowed to return home by their own government, in a daring secret operation during the last weeks of the war. One result was a fairly large Romulan expatriate community on Alpha Centaury IV, Earth’s oldest colony founded by Zefrem Cochrane himself.
You see that this is a huge break from canon because it does not only ignore ENT but also important elements from Balance of Terror. But I created this before ENT aired.
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The reboot films are “canon” in the sense that they are official material within the IP, but they are non-canon when it comes to continuity. JJ Abrams stated the whole supernova, black hole, time travel concept was intended to create a separate distinct reality to allow the original timeline to continue rather than a full-on reboot.
Simply put, if you play your campaign in the original timeline, within the setting of TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT/etc, the Kelvin timeline is non-canon by default.
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Should I remind you of what you wrote:
This quote is the problem, because you are writing that these movies are not canon. And that’s wrong. They are canon, like any other movie or series of this franchise, even if they are disliked by fans. We are not the ones who decide that is canon and that is not canon.
And this topic is not a place for a canon discussion. So don’t be a troll and stop discussing canon here.
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I pains me to say that you are wrong. Something that is part of one timeline cannot suddenly become non-canon if you look at a different timeline. It is still part of the same uniiverse, but it is just a different timeline. If you were right then the whole mirror universe would also be not canon if your campaign is set in the prime timeline.
Timelines have nothing to do with canon.
The Star Trek canon consists of three main timelines: prime, mirror and kelvin. The last two are connected to the prime timeline but are completely original. They are no branches of the prime timeline, because we know that time travel in Star Trek does not create new timelines. If this were not the case then it were compeletly impossible to repair the timeline, something we has seen in several episodes.
And now could we stop talking about canon and return to the topic!
I think part of the problem is some don’t know what the word “canon” means. Canon is what is considered officially part of the franchise by the franchise owner/ property holder. Often nobody exercises that, and the fans are left to decide for themselves. Not so with Trek.
If you look at other “non-prime” Trek realities, things have occurred in other realities that didn’t occur in the prime reality… the Federation was over-run by the Borg, Worf married Troi, the Terran Empire did exist, etc… all that IS canon.
Even the quantum-reality nature of all these realities are canon, per Data’s explanation in TNG, and Spock’s explanation in the JJ-verse.
So. The JJ-verse IS canon, it is part of the Terk reality, but it doesn’t have to be part of YOUR crew’s timeline or reality any more than the Mirror Universe has to be. If you want think of it as another Mirror Universe, and forget about it. Frankly, I do that with both JJ-trek and Discovery… paths that could have been taken but weren’t, at least in my game’s reality.
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@tanksoldier
I agree.
Back to topic:
Some more changes from my campaign idea.
Several places on Alpha Centaury IV are named after the people who helped Cochrane with the Phoenix. There is LaForge Bay, the capital, the Riker Mountains, the Troi River and the Barclay Forest. His revenge for being told that there will be a statue of him in Bozeman and that schools are named after him.
Another campaign idea of mine takes place in 2384.
Picard is now a Vice-Admiral, Chief of Naval Operations (the same position Kirk had in TMP) and married to Beverly Crusher, who is a captain and had a daughter from her relationship with Ambassador Odan. LaForge is the first officer of the USS Challenger. Worf is still the Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire. His son Alexander had left the Klingon Defense Force and joined Starfleet. Riker and Troi are still on the USS Titan. B-4 is active but cannot use the knowledge and memories he had received from Data, so he is in the care of the Daystorm Institute.
The Romulan Star Empire lies in shambles. There is a power struggle between several surviving members of the government and several subjugated species (like the Remans). And both the Klingons and the Breen are using this oportunity to conquer several Romulan systems which led to a war between them. And the Federation tries its best to stabilize the whole situation.
The Cardassian Union has also lost much power because several formerlysubjugated species have declared themselves independent and founded their own empires by conquering Cardassian systems.
The PCs were going to be captain and crew of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-E.
This clearly ignores Star Trek and Picard but it was created before the Kelvin timeline movie.
Can everybody just calm down?
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Personally, at one point I’ll be sending my prime timeline campaign for a diversion into the Kelvin timeline. I’m disregarding the official scale of the ship and modifying the timeline. (While Kirk goes into the academy in 2255 or whenever, he won’t be the Enterprise Captain until 2265, as Starfleet in my interpretation won’t put a cadet under disciplinary review in command of their flagship before he even graduates…)
Basically, I’m spreading the Kelvin movies out, so Beyond occurs so far down the line as 2270 or so, with Enterprise-A being launched just in time to have an adventure closely parallel to TMP. Not that my players will see that part play out. They’ll hit the Kelvin timeline just before the events of Beyond.
I have issues with the scale changes in the Kelvin flicks and Discovery. My campaign assumes the Constitution was 289 meters long until the 2272 refit upped that to 301, if memory serves. The weird Klingon ships in Disco, as they were modeled on the Sarcophagus which was supposed to be ancient, I interpret as old Hur’q ships kept as trophies by the Great Houses. As a visual retcon, I say the rest of the Klingon ships in the 2256-2257 war were Raptors, D5s, Birds of Prey a la Enterprise, and some of the Axanar D6s.
That’s it. Most of my changes are VFX changes, aside from some narrative revisions to the JJ films, which will feature over no more than 3-4 adventures before my players should be able to find their way to their home timeline.
You could change less if you assume that the Kelvin timeline does not branch from the prime timeline but was just influenced by it, like the mirror universe was.
In case you are unaware, using those words is just asking for the situation to get worse rather than better. If you do know that, then play on.
Ok folks, lets get along. The canon you choose to be used for your game is up to you. The canon in my game universe includes Enterprise and all of the series except Discovery. That’s just me. CBS/Paramount considers every series and every movie to be canon. If you disagree in your campaign, that’s cool. It’s not something worth fighting over or getting insulting over. This us a Star Trek fan forum after all, lets stay civilized.
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I run my campaign in the Kelvin timeline, just so I can not worry about existing canon. I can still pull in a lot of similar events to the “Prime” timeline.
One doesn’t get “promoted” to an honorific. Initiated, elevated, installed, awarded, sure… but not “promoted.”
Kirk notes it as a promotion.
We see in Discovery and Menagerie that he’s already a substantiative-rank of captain. For him to be promoted to fleet captain, he’s either been demoted, or it’s a rank. It might be a brevet-only rank, but it’s still a rank, much like Colonel-Brigadier in the UK’s Army in the 19th C.
That he holds it still while nearly incapable of any real function? This implies strongly that it’s rank, not positional, title.
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To go back to the OP “I don’'t like this series with that female captain so I’m going to ignore it” is a bit past trivial break from canon for me. I know it’s been addressed but I’m adding my mark to the list of people that scoff at that. Words mean things and that’s not a ‘fairly trivial break’.
Like wise ignoring multiple movies/shows worth of Uniform that spanned years is not exactly trivial either. I love the 2370s uniforms. Starfleet looks more like a -fleet- and exactly what it ‘is’. With those uniforms. If someone feels so strongly about a uniform that they will summarily refuse to talk to another person if they like them… lol Well. Good. No one wants to talk to you dude. That’s a jerky outlook from the jump.
As a point of fact, it was mentioned about half through the thread, (But I just read the thread today) Starfleet DOES have ‘Home Fleets’ that patrol their major member worlds. They’re not 100s of ships at every planet but they do possess them. You can find mention of them through out the various sources, not the least of which is the fleet that rolls out to protect 001 when Voyager comes home.
It should also be noted that during the Dominion war the Fed poured a lot of resources into ships, but they also pulled ships out of mothballs. And slapped stuff together. This resulted in the “Franken-fleets” that a simple google search will tell you loads and loads about.
Remember the fed is 100s of member worlds that have Replicator (and industrial replicator) Technology on tap. Add raw material+Energy (Which is essentially free in ST) and you pump out finished product as fast as you can tell the computer what you need. They also have multiple fleet yards. Mars, Jupiter, Tellar, Andoria, Betazed, just to name a few.
Remember that in Picard, they summarily passed and put into production “TEN THOUSAND WARP CAPABLE FERRIES” to evac Romulas.
Not ten.
Not a thousand.
Ten thousand large warp capable ships.
This number is significant for two reasons.
- That it was approved for an extra faction purpose. I.E. they were building ten THOUSAND Ships to aid someone not in the Federation. Which shows the amount of resources the Fed could toss when they’re motivated
and - That they COULD BUILD 10,000 ships in a short amount of time. They found out the sun was going to go Nova. Not in 10…20… 50… 500 years, but very very soon. Thus pressing the need to Evac the planets.
Why would you commission and agree to build 10,000 ships to evac a planet, if the planet would be blown up before you finished them all? So clearly the 10,000 ships would be built in time to FUNCTION as ships to evac the planet. I.E. before it exploded.
So knowing that the Fed could build 10,000 warp capable ships in very very short amount of time to help an enemy. Yes they could, if needed pump out 1000s of ships to save themSELVES when invasion from another quad shows up to destroy them.
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Sorry, but this is like all design changes a trivial change, because Roddenberry himself saw no need to explain all the changes he made for TMP. For him they were no changes. There are only two cases in which uniform changes were explained. In DS9 it was a major plot element and in DIS it was implied that the starfleet blue uniform will be phased out in favour of the “traditional” gold, red and blue ones.
Show me where I said my dislike of Voyager has anything to do with the captain’s sex/gender. Go on…
Oh, that’s right, I didn’t, but making assumptions like that tells me something about you.
I hope I’m not starting another debate, but for me everything post-ENT doesn’t exist (minus perhaps elements of STO), either in STA or in real-life. The baseline to me is that everything is “canon”, or more specifically, everything that happened, happened. That includes Threshold, VOY as a whole, and even everything concerning the TOS Klingons (from Trials and Tribbelations to ENT). The baseline centers on “internal consistency”, and while a long-running franchise like Star Trek certainly has slip-ups and sometimes ridiculous justifications, in general it still has been rather consistent (including the Klingons).
But it seems the people who worked on Trek post-ENT seem to not care about that internal consistency and just do whatever the hell they want. Well, good for them, it’s “their” show and CBS’ decisions. I have no quarrels with either the setting or the overall story, just the visual and thematic/mood inconsistencies, and certain continuity holes that come from being a pre-sequel in DIS’ case. In fact, two of my planned campaigns deal with my own version of the DIS and post-Nemesis eras.
In the end, I’d rather not be a member of any fandom anymore, due to these fracturing debates, and just enjoy the things the way they were when I fell in love with them.
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