Finally got to my PDF. The Hyrkanian horse allows a person to make an animal handling test so they are not at a penalty for firing a bow while riding it.
Edit: spelling and (pg. 69 Brigand book)
Sounds like there are stacking penalties for firing from horseback, and for firing from atop a galloping horse. So an archer with a Hyrkanian bow could fire at partial speed without penalty, while a character firing a Hyrkanian Bow riding a Hyrkanian or Turanian horse could do so at a gallop, without penalty.
Stands to reason a rider on this horse without the proper bow would still suffer the penalty for horseback archery, but the difficulty would not worsen further when galloping.
Especially considering that many common weapons already have a base CD in excess of a âLoaded Volleyâ. So your Hyrkanian bow now does 4 CD instead of 3 CD⌠FOR JUST ONE ROUND, and then you are done.
I might be missing something, but youâre not done. You have, effectively, infinite quivers.
So with that Broadsword you can attack infinite times at 5CD and with that bow you can attack infinite times at 3CD. Itâs just that in addition you can choose to make specific attacks at +1D20 and +1CD. The 5CD vs 3CD is based on the fact that Ranged weapons donât need to get into Reach to be effecitve: thatâs the actually relevant comparison.
A similar, and more useful comparison is the Throwing Knife vs the Dagger. The Volley trait is important to the utility of the Throwing Knife as, effectively, it lets a player to throw as many knives as they need in a scene without resorting to âa magical belt that the knives reappear inâ. Rather, itâs just a character who carries a bevvy of knives and happens to have just enough for scene.
Stripped to their essentials, Resources allow you to carry spare Momentum. Particularly if youâre starved of Momentum for some reason, this can be huge. Admittedly, this is more noticeable in other systems (Infinity for instance has weapons that allow you to spend multiple Volleys on a single attack, and has more diverse Resource options) but I certainly donât sniff at the ability of the Volley trait to add just that little edge.
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Perhaps it was poorly phrased, but what I meant is that after you have Volleyed with your puny 3CD bow, you are âout of ammoâ, unless you happen to have extra loads, and then you can do it one more time, or maybe two more times at most. With a broadsword, as you point out, you can keep on swinging.
For this reason, I rather like Gebirâs suggestion somewhere in this thread, of making the bonus for Volley last for the entire scene. This does somewhat obviate the need for carry extra loads, but I think it is a good compromise.
I also like the update about the Hyrkanian mount. I donât have that source book yet so it was nice to see. But I still think that even on a regular horse, mounted archers should have the same bonuses for mounted combat that melee combatants do. After all, the speed of the horse imparts extra speed to the loosed arrow of a mounted archer, which is one of the things that made historical mounted archers (like the Magyars, for instance) so deadly.
I like this idea a lot!
Thanks!
But I should clarify: I canât take the credit because I had the idea from another. And, scouring and cross-referencing the rules, I became convinced that this actually is the intent of the game design. Originally, I intuitively thought a Load lasted for one Roundâand that it expended ammo.
Sometimes the beautiful machine of Conan 2d20 can be quite cryptic!
but what I meant is that after you have Volleyed with your puny 3CD bow, you are âout of ammoâ, unless you happen to have extra loads, and then you can do it one more time, or maybe two more times at most.
What I meant is thatâs wrong: you are not âout of ammoâ.
If you have 0 Loads of ammo for your puny 3CD bow you can continue firing it infinite times. Simply firing your bow does not cost a Load. Expending a Load is additional to just firing your bow.
You only run out of ammo on your bow when you have 0 Loads of ammo and a Complication causes you to run out of ammo. Equally, swinging a Broadsword and rolling a Complication can cause your sword to break so there is no additional vulnerability with the Volley trait.
The 3CD bow is balanced vs the 5CD Broadsword, essentially, entirely on range. The Volley quality balances out against the Parry quality as something extra the weapon allows you to do.
Now itâs possible that in the games you play range doesnât matter because itâs relatively trivial to charge across the open ground to close range but thatâs not an issue with the Volley rule.
Experience with other 2D20 games makes it clear that a Resource is only applied to the Roll itâs expended on. Given how often you can fire a gun in Infinity, applying Reloads to the entire round would end very badly.
The only limit on how many Loads of arrows that an archer can carry is Encumbrance. Now looking at the Encumbrance rules, there is the problem for Archers: a Hunting Bow with 3 Loads is 5 Encumbrance, compared to a Broadswordâs 1 and thatâs before you consider that an Archer build is likely to have lower Brawn.
Even then though, an Archer in a combat loadout should have ~6 Loads for their Bow.
Shortsword (1), Buckler (1), Helmet (2), Brigandine Jacket (3), Heavy Trews (1), Bow (2) + 6 Loads (6) = 16 Encumbrance (8 Brawn x 2).
Itâs also worth remembering that, provided that the character has time post combat, Loads are explicitly able to be recovered post combat. So 6 Loads is a reasonable amount for a combat encounter.
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My character is the partyâs best archer (by a large margin) and has invested in most of the Ranged Weapons talents. There is a game design problem with two of them (they both take a Minor Action to perform, meaning you canât do them bothâŚ), but there are some huge benefits to being deep in the archery talent tree.
- Loads add +1d20 and +1[cd], and with Quick Release, you can spend 2 Loads at once to add +2d20 and +2[cd]. That makes my Bossonian Longbow do 7[cd] damage plus 2 more for the characterâs Awareness for 9[cd].
- Accurate is similar to No Mercy in that I can reroll combat dice I donât like, up to the number of talents I have in Ranged Weapons (hint: itâs a lot), so while I donât get special effects like Vicious or Knockdown, I get to do an average of about 11-12 points in a single 2-load shot.
- Mobs and gangsâŚoh, how I love them! This is where the Volley property shines. Hail of Arrows allows you to spend 1 Load to perform the Secondary Target Momentum spend for only 1 Momentum and itâs repeatable so I can shoot a lot of minions.
3b. Mobs and gangsâŚoh, how I love them, part two! Blot Out the Sun makes that Secondary Target Momentum spend do full damage instead of half damage.
My character carries 6 Loads (the most her Brawn will support with her other gear) and her mount carries 24 more. (And before you ask if that was a lot of Gold, it was, but weâre rich, plus the character now has Quiver-Full from Conan the Scout so I can replace Loads from scavenging the battlefield after the encounter. Yes, even before Quiver-Full, I could regain Loads, but thereâs a good chance you lose them and I want to be fully Loaded for any encounter.
Single-target mayhem? Maces and Broadswords and Melee talents to make the attacks Vicious (or more Vicious) and reroll damage dice andâŚandâŚand⌠Yeah, the melee guys are pretty awesome (once they get into range). But for thinning out the Pict horde before it reaches my friends? Canât beat those Ranged Weapon talents, if used properly!!!
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Just to add this in, for someone searching.
Load
I did not see any mention in the thread, and there was speculation about what a load consisted off. Page 151, Missile Weapon chart, asterisk note at the bottom, clearly mentions what a load is.
Iâve always handled ranged weapons with the Volley qualities as follows:
No need to track ammo. You can fire at least one shot a round, two if perform swift action or have something that allows for a second shot. As long as the shot didnât have a complication, you are able to recover the shot.
Should you choose to unleash a Volley, you expend a Load, gain the +1d20 and +1d6 OR (table rule) add the Area quality to the Volley attack. As long as their was no complication on the Volley, you are able to recover the Load.
I donât get into how many projectiles comprise a Load. Tracking ammo, for me, is an unnecessary drag to be avoided when possible.
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I dig that house rule.
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Me too! That house rule is really cool! Definitely stealing it.
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Interesting house rule, adding Area. My only worry about this rule is that if you have an alchemist in the party, whose province is Area attacks â there arenât many Area attacks outside of petty enchantments â it might compete in the alchemistâs wheelhouse. But itâs still intriguing and Iâll have to think about adding it to my game.
Question: Is this in lieu of the bonus d20 and the combat die? Or just the combat die?
In lieu of the bonus d20 AND the combat die. Of course if they want to spend Momentum/Doom for bonus d20 and add to Damage, have at.
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Thanks for clarifying that! I think thatâs a quite balanced option, and will be stealing it, too!
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@Dytrrnikl Unfortunately, that breaks the Hail of Arrows Talent (core 78) that states
When you attempt a Ranged attack with a weapon with the Volley Quality, you can spend 1 Load to use the SecondaryTarget Momentum spend for 1 Momentum (repeatable).
Secondary Target Momentum states
A second target within Reach suffers half an attackâs damage (rounding up). A physical attack hits a random hit location.
Honestly, I missed that Talent when I came up with my table rule. Partly because I always interpreted the Secondary Target momentum spend to be something along the lines of the Cleave feat in D&D. Definately going to have to take a closer look at my table rule with what you pointed out, see if I can make it work or toss it all together.
I thought about it for a bit and came to the conclusion that I would offer Area instead of an extra d20 and d6 as well as adding one point of Dooom sequentially per attack.
I like the Doom cost. I have a session tomorrow night I can test it out and see how it goes.
please post results of your game sesion with this modified rule. thanks.