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Questions about Rules

I have 3 questions :slight_smile:

  1. What are Switchblade stats?
  2. Some talents are used as minor actions so why are no minor action in rules?
  3. In second comic book section one of characters uses Void as automatic 1 on dice (normal 2d20 rule in Conan/Infinity/Star Trek), but can’t find that rule in any Void Point section…
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Another question.

p. 93 defines the Enhanced Protection upgrade twice. The second one is for ranged weapons, and must have another name.

Questions and suggestions:
-Page 28: You only can have 3 Void points at a time. The wording is not clear, if this shall be applied only for freshly generated characters, and this Void point maximum can be upgraded by spending XP…

-Page 58: Characters have personal truths (PCs and NPCs). Do these have beneficial/detrimental effects similar to other Truths (increasing/decreasing the difficulty of the roll)? For example if my character’s personal truth is protecting my children then do I have a decreased difficulty for combat rolls if I defend my son? Or are these only personality traits?

-Page 64: Assassins gain a switchblade. There is no switchblade in the weapons section

-Page 102-104: I miss the opportunity for upgrading powers. Some powers seems to be “fully upgraded” with all upgrades unlocked (such as Far reach is similar to Far Reach level 3), while other upgrade options are missing (Premonition from Dark vision, etc).

-Page 102-104: Some powers e.g. Pull, Domino, Doppelgänger, Shadow Walk or Wind Blast, Summon Assassin are missing. It would be cool to have them :slight_smile:

-Page 237: The items of Witch include Piero’s Spiritual Remedy (elixir, regain 6 mana). However, this item is not available for players in the Gear section and no “mana” rules apply for powers.

-Page 257: Envisioned are marked as Minor Adversary. As far as I understand the rules they shall be Notable Adversary.

-Page 269: Dauds description mentions Void gaze but no such a power is described in the powers section. It should be Dark Vision?

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I’ll repost my questions from the 2D20 forum:

P. 37 - rules explanation comic:

In the example, 1 Void point is spent “to turn this die into a 1”. This option is not mentioned in the rules for Void points on p. 28; should it be added, or is the example in error?

P. 41 - Taking Stress:

Can damage be reduced by 1 by taking a correspondig truth more than once?
How are stress and damage truths healed?

P. 64 and 104 - “Minor Action”

The “Get back to it!” Commander talent and both the “Mesmerize” and “Eye Within”-Void Powers mention that using them requires a “minor action”, but this kind of action isn’t described in the rules.

Void points:

Limit on using Void points: On p. 29, it is mentioned that players can “only spend one Void point per scene”. This would make using some Void powers impossible, as they have a cost of 2. And it means Void powers can generally only used once per scene. Is this intentional?

Starting Void point: Does the sentence on gaining Void points on p. 28 (“[a]side from gaining 1 Void point at the start of each session[…]”) mean that every player character gets 1 Void point? How does this interact with the rule on p. 75: “[I]f you have any supernatural powers (see The Outsider’s Mark page 63), you have 1 Void point available to spend.”

Max. number of Void points: P. 28 states that “[y]ou cannot have more than three Void points at any one time.” How does this interact with the rules for experience on p. 78 (“You may increase the maximum Void points you can have by 1.”)?

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Gotta be honest, I find this being released in this state inexcusable. I was so very excited by an official Dishonored game but this just seems to be a rushed money-grab using a beloved franchise. It feels incomplete and not worthy of the franchise. I sincerely hope Modiphius halts the printed release and takes time to polish it up and fix mistakes because I believe there’s a great game in there.

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The Knife in the Weapons sections is damage 3 but every knife listed for the NPC’s is damage 2. As damage 3 would make it the same damage as a sword, I assume the correct damage is 2.

Edit - never mind, I see the Sword for NPCs is also damage 2 so this was perhaps intentional?

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I have to agree - I really hope this book gets another editing pass before going to print. I really like the adaptation of the 2D20 system for this setting, but I too find it disheartening that the PDF was released with so many inconsistencies, errors, and omissions.

My guess is that Modiphius wanted to get some sales to support them during the COVID-19 shutdown (I am all for supporting my favorite game companies) and probably rushed to get this released. If that is the case then hopefully this could be considered an early version of the manuscript and it gets a thorough updating before the book goes off to the printers for printing.

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A few remarks from our group (some may be repeat from above, but I’m only pasting the points). Comments from The Oil Trail are omitted (I’ve made a separate thread about the mini-campaign):

There are several places where the premise of ignored Complications are unclear. Is it per scene, session, ever, or per roll?

  • Controlled Detonation (Inventor Talent) p.71.
  • Fighting Fit (Scout Talent) p.73.
  • Prized Weapon (Sharpshooter Talent) p.74.
  • Upgrades: Refined Construction p.93.

Prices:

  • Should the price for pistol bullets be 30 coins? p.86

Assistance:

  • page 24 states you assist with one die, and cannot add extra as assistant (2d20 standard rules).
  • The comic on p. 33 wrongly has the assistant buy extra dice?

Typos:

  • page 26: It is stated that there are three Truths. Only two are listed.
  • page 226, Feed Upon Fear: Second sentence, fear lacks an R.

Void Points:

  • Scenes and Stakes page 29: States that a player may spend only one point per scene. This conflicts with Void Powers that costs more than 1 point, as well as the Call of the Void optional rule. It also limits using more than one Void Power in a scene or fight. We believe the intent is that you can only use 1 Void Point to introduce a Truth to a scene, alternatively that you may only use Void points once (plural, to support the above). The latter would still reduce Void Power usage options.

Stress/Healing:

  • Are rules for recovering stress missing?
  • Same for negative Truths.

Focus:

  • on page 64: It is stated a Focus can have minimum 2 points, maximum 6 from archetypes (of the 8 allocated). This contradicts the rules on the page before that states a Focus is between 2 and 5 (a rule which is later repeated)
  • Page 75 under Putting it all Together: Doesn’t state what happens if one of your Archetype Focuses already is at 5 - do you lose the extra point?

Talents:

  • Comment: Would’ve suspected a selection of General Talents.
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Void Powers

  • Only show the usage cost (Void Points) but not the buy cost (Runes)
  • Don’t clarify what their basic form is or possible upgrades (and those costs)

Distance

  • There are three distances mentioned: within reach, nearby and distant. But the power Far Reach mentions that it has a limit of 20 feet. So what is the distance between e.g. within reach and nearby? How far can a person walk in one turn?

Truths created by Players

  • How far are they allowed to go? If a NPC has the Truth “viscious rumour surrounds them”, are the players allowed to erase it completely? Some more examples would be nice and maybe general limits.

General

  • It would be better if the table of contents is more detailed
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“Focuses: you may gain an additional focus with a rating of 2, or add +1 to
each of two of your existing focuses. You may not increase any focus above
5.” - pg75

I don’t really understand this part. Does it mean that I can choose or not to choose to add additional focus?

Hey!
Trying to address some of 'em :slight_smile:

P.24: It can be her pulling her knife as well, narrating her momentum spend.

P.26: typo.

P.28: non issue. 3 points max, experience upgrade raises It by 1, thus increasing charms and creative stunts.

P.37: It can still refer to some creative Void Point use or some alternate bonecharm Power :slight_smile: No mistake, It Is called creativity.

P.41: absolutely clear. -1 damage for 1 Truth. This can be done everytime you take damage, 1 time.

P.58: Truths are Truths, as clearly explained in the “because of X…” Example. +1d when ok, -1d when bad. They still represent narrative fact. If you take “lame” to “soak” 1 damage, you can’t run.

P.64: foldable sword. That’s It.

P64-104: I Guess It can be read like “you are not using uour action for this”. Being able to act Is the requirement, but you’re basically Just bolstering your own business. :slight_smile:
As clearly stated at p. 30, some activities are considered simple and non-actions. You are maybe thinkin’ about ‘minor’ as a standard 2d20 approach, but this Is another game and should be read with no assumptions. Minor means “no action”.

P.64: Focus. Typo. Min 2 Max 5.

P.71/73 etc: the FIRST Is the FIRST. :slight_smile: Means that if you roll 2d20 and get a 20, you ignore that. If you get two 20s, you only ignore one.

P.74: why would you lose points? You don’t “lose” a point. That’s an option, if you choose It and you have a focus at 5, you place a single +1. In general, if you put 5/3 on your Focuses, you’ll have 5/4 or 5/3/2. Can’t see the issue. :slight_smile:

P.86: 30 coins, as written. The text explains how pistols and their AMMO are inredibly expensive. And that’s an intelligent balancing feature as well in a game where Truths are a thing and shooting with a firearm can be incredibly awesome and Dangerous.

VOID POINTS: You can only spend 1 VP per scene for common purposes. You can obviously spend more if It Is a Power cost. This shouldn’t limit the Number of Powers you can use in any given scene neither BUT Remember that you can never have more than 3 VPs at a time.

VOID POINTS REPRISE: This means that you have 2 points at character creation. Remember that your character Will start play After creation and, without this rule, you would have been unable to use some of the above mentioned Powers (since they cost 2 points). This way, you are granted a 2 VPs Power use as soon as the game starts, but from there on ,you’ll Need to gain your VPs as Always.
You gain 1 VP at the start of each session.

With the experience achievement, i.e.,You can now have 4 Max Void Points (gained normally). This interacts with runes/charms you can possess (which equals your VP maximum) and Will, in general, making you more powerful (i.e., you could be able to cast two 2VP powers in a single scene).

STRESS/HEALING: there Is no “healing”.

  • Negative Truths are removed as any other Truth. You must take actions to do so.
  • As clearly stated, you must take actions to empty or fill tracks. Do something in game like First aiding or personal care and your stress goes off, as for stealth tracks, i.e.
    This game Is not about simulationism and doesn’t assume any standard 2d20 rule. This Is a standalone game with its own mindset. Rules are, as stated, there like tools in a toolbox. Wanna add strict healing rules? Go for It! But the game doesn’t, because the type of narration enforced here Is that you can almost kill people on a success, that you can change reality with momentum/caos and that you can expands the rules in any direction.

NPC/WEAPONS: if there’s a Number, that’s the Number. Maybe there’s some hidden balance, especially if you expect multiple enemies. It might be that sometimes they opted to go for lower damage values. Pretty common in many non simulationist RPGs.

VOID POWERS: P.102. “…LEARN USING A RUNE”. Runes required = A RUNE = 1, as clearly written and repeated on enchantments as well.
The 2 runes cost limit Is the typo.

About improving Powers, feels like We’ll soon get an option book. Pretty common to have basic options in a core rulebook referring to something not appearing yet. :wink:

MOVEMENT: movement and FAR reach have nothing to do with One another. Far reach Tells you an aproximate distance for pulling.

MOVEMENT Is abstract. On p. 30, though, It clearly states that you can go NEARBY during your Action. Distant means… Far. How far Is determined by the situation and, by the book, requires significant effort, probably your Action and the +1 difficulty increase for direct interactions. The game cares about what’s nearby in terms of relative/narrative positioning and you can move around with no effort. During your Action, you describe where you are going.

Tons of this “issues” come from the fact that this game Is a storytelling version of our beloved 2d20, with its own mindset and loose structure to allow players to narrate a story without many rules constrictions. The core rules are pretty clear and hacking requires zero time. If you look for Much complete rulesets, probably you are looking at the wrong game, imho.

This Is not about what they did; It Is about what YOU expected them to do.

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Wow, great answers and summary! I love it! :star_struck:

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I have to respectfully disagree. Like the Dishonored Rulebook, it’s lacking clarity - e. g., are those answers in any way official or informed by play experience/designer hearsay/whatever?

And the amount of questions here, on DriveThruRPG and on other forums shows that the rules are lacking at least in concise presentation for players new to 2D20 or more narrative games.

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The amount of questions do not demonstrate anything other than people don’t read books and do not accept mindset before rulesets. I had zero issues with this book and I’m sure I can live with a bunch of typos.

More than half of these issues are clearly written. It is Just that MOST players just read a book assuming other games’ mindsets.

Then, I favor helping, creativity and problem solving rather than attacking a publisher during a pandemic Emergency for having “rushed a product out” and/or trying to demonstrate a theory with the “masses Say this” method, which means nothing. People hate 4e d&d, It Is in my top 3 favorite editions. It wouldn’t have been so if I spent time listening the masses instead of Just Reading the book and accepting the mindset.

Truth Is: people were expecting another product, while I had a clear idea of the direction It was taking (narrative iteration of our 2d20 system sounds pretty clear).

Maybe this Is Just not the game for you :slight_smile:

Edit: and, EVEN considering some of the complaining, we are talking about 5 different human beings (three here and two on drivethru) vs some other amount of enthusiast (same Number). So, It Is like Always. It Is web time. Millions of RPlayer played with a flawed core book for 40 years and still proudly using It without understanding how Initiative works… And still being able to delivers tons of fun to 8 y.o. plus… Again, maybe we Just Need to start again using some creativity.

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Whilst I agree with @Arthemys to some degree, in as much as nothing here is really a show stopper for an experienced gamer, I do still stand by the fact that the book does need revisions and clarifications. This game is very likely going to attract fans of the video games who may be new to the tabletop RPG hobby, and the fact that some sections are unclear, or that nomenclature (minor action versus no action for example) is not consistent matters a lot more when the reader is stepping into RPGs for the first time. For new RPG players - you cannot make assumptions that they will know what is meant or intended.

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My respond to what Arthemys wrote is that what he wrote was very good. :+1:

But i also think there are flaws and could use some clarity as well, here and there. On the other hand, there are lot of ttrpg´s out there that are lacking a lot of things, and that a lot of people are not satisfied no matter what is done to them.
This ttrpg will get updates added to the PDF and before it is even printed.
Modiphius are following this forum closely. That is good. So whatever people make comments about in here, it is always a good thing. Another good thing is when people can give each other feedback on creativity, food for thought and give some great ideas, both to other players as well as to the creators.

I truly hope this ttrpg will get all that it deserves and then some more love as well. And for me, if some things are lacking, i am not shy to put my own things in the game. Building your own stuff in ttrpg´s is a beutiful thing and tons of fun.

But yeah, can they make this game a bit more precise in some ways and fill some holes along the way, im all for it. It can never be perfect, but they can put in some more love, and i think they will.

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I get you, i agree with what you are saying.
4e, true that!
Also, i think people complain in a lot of weird ways most of the time, and most of the time in a very agressive way instead of pitching in some good ideas, and instead of being creative.

I mailed Modiphius some time ago, putting in some ideas, thoughts and also asked some questions, great support and great answers.

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It’s definitely about what they did.

The book needs another editing and layout pass, period.

I think the Modiphius team are a bunch of grown ups who can accept constructive criticism from paying customers.

They don’t need any fan boys swooping in to tell anyone with valid concerns that feces does in fact smell like roses…

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Thank you for smoothing out some of the rules! I only have one question that you might be able to clear up.

In combat, are the PCs rolling a set difficulty (DC 1 Melee; DC 2 Range) or are the PCs rolling against the NPCs fight/stance?

Similarly when an NPC attacks a PC, the PC rolls against the NPC in order to defend and possibly counter-attack correct? (If the PC has 2 momentum).

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Ahahah, no fan boy, believe me. I had some criticism, I made my own simplified Infinity PCs since I find the standard granularity a bit intimidating for the system and more…

In THIS case, I saw 90% of those being non issue easily solved with a couple of Reading.

Yes, It needs editing. I’m a semi professional editor, so I kinda understand.